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In article <2fva6j$h1f@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au> int877w@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (William Fang) writes:
:
:
[Question and list of compiler prices deleted]
:
:My price list is about a year out of date, so I didn't bother
:posting all version numbers.  If the price is given, it's from
:a newer catalogue.  Is there some other package I should be
:looking at?  I had a play around with DJGPP, but didn't like
:the lack of integrated help and having to print out volumes of
:texts to get an idea of what's what ;-/
:
:Thanks.
:
:
:- Jim

   Well, I was going to suggest Watcom C/C++ 32 but you seem to want 
integration?  Maybe a nice IDE?  Well,  until recently I was strictly
Borland and for 16 bit programming (and when I won't need more than 640K of
memory) I still use them.  You may want to check them out.  I think you
can get Borland C++ 3.1 for around $200 with educational discount.  However,
if you simply want something to learn 'C' on then Turbo C++ is what you may
want to look at.  -- Good Luck -- 
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't do it in the
streets and frighten the horses.    -- Victor Hugo
                                                        beaman@andrews.edu

In article <2fva6j$h1f@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au> int877w@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (William Fang) writes:
>
>I've been kicking around the idea of learning to program in C
>and purchase a compiler (with an Educational discount).  I'd
>like to be able to write a few Windows 3.1 utilities, but if
>I have spend $$$ on Windows programming documentation, I'll 
>stick to DOS only ;-)
>
>Anyway, what do you think is "best" for the price?
>
>Turbo C++
>Turbo C++ for Windows
>Turbo C++ with TurboVision
>Turbo C++ 3.1 Visual Edition (Windows)		A$79
>Borland C++
>Borland C++ 3.1 and Frameworks			A$299
>MicroSoft Visual C++				A$95
>
>
>My price list is about a year out of date, so I didn't bother
>posting all version numbers.  If the price is given, it's from
>a newer catalogue.  Is there some other package I should be
>looking at?  I had a play around with DJGPP, but didn't like
>the lack of integrated help and having to print out volumes of
>texts to get an idea of what's what ;-/

Investigate Watcom C/C++^32 9.5 -- it is $US 199 for the full package at 
an educational discount.  The documentation is infinitely better than 
what Borland and Microsoft produce.... I feel this makes up for the lack 
of on-line help within the DOS and OS/2 environment -- though I believe 
there is Windows-based help.

Also, your learning curve for programming in C will be infinitely easier 
in a flat memory model -- not to mention more useful on other platforms!

Cheers
Chris
keane@earthsun.umd.edu

Christopher Matthews Keane (keane@eng.umd.edu) wrote:
: Investigate Watcom C/C++^32 9.5 -- it is $US 199 for the full package at 
: an educational discount.  The documentation is infinitely better than 

Anyone know where to get this from in Melbourne? I would appreciate it
if someone could let me know the price in $AUS and where it may be found
in Melbourne.

Thanks.

KM

Christopher Matthews Keane (keane@eng.umd.edu) wrote:
: In article <2fva6j$h1f@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au> int877w@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (William Fang) writes:
: >
: >I've been kicking around the idea of learning to program in C
: >and purchase a compiler (with an Educational discount).  I'd
: >like to be able to write a few Windows 3.1 utilities, but if
: >I have spend $$$ on Windows programming documentation, I'll 
: >stick to DOS only ;-)
: >
: >Anyway, what do you think is "best" for the price?
: >
: >Turbo C++
: >Turbo C++ for Windows
: >Turbo C++ with TurboVision
: >Turbo C++ 3.1 Visual Edition (Windows)		A$79
: >Borland C++
: >Borland C++ 3.1 and Frameworks			A$299
: >MicroSoft Visual C++				A$95
: >
: >
: >My price list is about a year out of date, so I didn't bother
: >posting all version numbers.  If the price is given, it's from
: >a newer catalogue.  Is there some other package I should be
: >looking at?  I had a play around with DJGPP, but didn't like
: >the lack of integrated help and having to print out volumes of
: >texts to get an idea of what's what ;-/

: Investigate Watcom C/C++^32 9.5 -- it is $US 199 for the full package at 
: an educational discount.  The documentation is infinitely better than 
: what Borland and Microsoft produce.... I feel this makes up for the lack 
: of on-line help within the DOS and OS/2 environment -- though I believe 
: there is Windows-based help.

: Also, your learning curve for programming in C will be infinitely easier 
: in a flat memory model -- not to mention more useful on other platforms!

: Cheers
: Chris
: keane@earthsun.umd.edu

I too would have suggested Borland C/C++ 4.0, but would say Borland C/C++ 3.1
or Turbo C/C++ 2 if you are just learning C.  These have a real nice IDE.
I am know tring out MS Visual C/C++ to do Windose programing and I think I
like it (????).  I also bought Watcom C 9.0 to do ADS programming for ACAD,
what a pain in the butt that was.  I never did upgrade to Ver 9.5 but might
in the future. Some reasons that I did not upgrade:
	1: No IDE (makes compiling and linking a snap)
	2: Debugger is cryptic and very difficult to use (user still bitch
		about this on Compu$erve)
	3: Ver 9.0 served its purpose

Some advantages of Watcom's Ver 9.0
	1: Flat memory addressing to 16MB with supplied Dos/Extender
			4GB if you purchase the Dos/Extender from Rational
	2: Multiple platforms:
		Dos, Windows, OS/2, QNX, and Autocad r11
		Dos/Extenders for Pharlap, Rational, and Ergo
I think think that Watcom Ver 9.5 can also right Win NT apps.

Bottom line though, I would not suggest Watcom to learn C with.

If you do want to wright programs with Extended Dos the look GNU compiler in
the archives, the price is right also (free).

Again, this is only my option, take it for what it's worth ($0.02)

Paul Kohut <pkohut@herbon.connected.com>

Send Email to tech@watcom.on.ca -- they should be able to point you to an 
Australian distrib or subdivision.

Cheers
Chris
keane@earthsun.umd.edu

First in response to Darryl's comments. Don't worry, I'm used to Unix and I've
used command line compilers before. What I'm really interested in is a good flat
memory model compiler for the PC (no IDE is alright).

And...

Christopher Matthews Keane (keane@eng.umd.edu) wrote:

: Send Email to tech@watcom.on.ca -- they should be able to point you to an 
: Australian distrib or subdivision.

Thanks. I'll try that. I've heard so much about this compiler but have never
seen it in real life.

Kid Mun

In article <1994Jan1.150429.25462@mel.dit.csiro.au>, car@conger.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Yap Kid Mun) writes:
> First in response to Darryl's comments. Don't worry, I'm used to Unix and I've
> used command line compilers before. What I'm really interested in is a good flat
> memory model compiler for the PC (no IDE is alright).

A cheap 32 bit PC compiler is djgpp - you can't get much cheaper
than free. Archie should be able to point you in the right direction.

Another commercial C++ compiler is the one from Symantec. The
professional edition is available for an upgrade price of US$200
in the U.S. I don't know what its worth here.

	Graeme Gill.

In article <1994Jan4.032955.541@labtam.labtam.oz.au>
graeme@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Graeme Gill) writes:
 
>
>In article <1994Jan1.150429.25462@mel.dit.csiro.au>, car@conger.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Yap Kid Mun) writes:
>> First in response to Darryl's comments. Don't worry, I'm used to Unix and I've
>> used command line compilers before. What I'm really interested in is a good flat
>> memory model compiler for the PC (no IDE is alright).
>
>A cheap 32 bit PC compiler is djgpp - you can't get much cheaper
>than free. Archie should be able to point you in the right direction.
>
 
There's another free 32 bit C/C++/Objective-C compiler available, called
EMX/GCC. It's a port of GNU-CC V 2.5.4, and is able to create plain DOS
apps, bounded DOS/OS2 apps and OS/2 PM applications. The compiler and
tools run under DOS and OS/2, so it's ideal to port UNIX applications
either to DOS or OS/2.
And: The famous GDB (GNU source code debugger) works with this compiler,
it's even possible (under OS/2 !) to run the debugger in one text mode
window, and your application in another one.
But: EMX/GCC requires a 386/387 or a 486. You NEED a FPU to use it.
 
,---------------------------------------------------------------------,
|  Matthias Burian                  Institut fuer Analytische Chemie  |
|                                                  Universitaet Wien  |
|  a8411gac@awiuni11.edvz.univie.ac.at          Waehringerstrasse 38  |
|                                               1090 Wien    AUSTRIA  |
`---------------------------------------------------------------------'

graeme@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Graeme Gill) writes:

>In article <1994Jan1.150429.25462@mel.dit.csiro.au>, car@conger.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Yap Kid Mun) writes:
>> First in response to Darryl's comments. Don't worry, I'm used to Unix and I've
>> used command line compilers before. What I'm really interested in is a good flat
>> memory model compiler for the PC (no IDE is alright).

>A cheap 32 bit PC compiler is djgpp - you can't get much cheaper
>than free. Archie should be able to point you in the right direction.

And for free its pretty good. Don't expect any IDE though or anything
fancy. The debugger is pretty primitive as well under DOS.
One should be a little careful with the optimizer as well ...
Using gcc under OS/2 is much nicer than under DOS and the same
applies to the debugger as well.

Roland