🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <5h1ct4$7a@newsops.execpc.com>,  <stevem@execpc.com> wrote:
>In <5h0qgq$42q@client3.news.psi.net>, os2@mistik.express.net (Mustafa Soysal MS57) writes:
>
>>Who is going to pay for those 10 bucks?  
>
>An interesting figure, $10.  As I recall, that is what I paid, less shipping for the POS
>UntieCom you authored (S/N 00227 - I have the diskette in front of me).

I don't see a registration.  Have you ever sent it in?

>
>> And who is going to pay for your time? 
>
>Indeed!  I spent numerous hours trying to install the thing, and when every attempt

Yes, I do use IBMs Software Installer, and there have been interesting
issues on some computers depending on what the users were doing.

>failed, I emailed you for advice on how to get it installed - not do anything useful,
>mind you, just get it installed.
>
>The rather absurd response I got from you suggested I spend additional hours 
>making a complete inventory of all the software on my system, printouts of my
>config.sys and autoexec,bat, and a few other equally stupid printouts, AND SNAIL-
>MAILTHEM TO YOU.  

We'll see that it is a lie in a mminute furtherdown this post.

>
>Now, I ask you, is there anyone dumb enough to comply with such a foolish
>*demand* in order to get a $10 software program INSTALLED (again, not 
>necessarily working, just installed)?

Apparently you and me.  Me because I tried to make it available for a
low price.  I charged about $6 myself, that includes the production cost
of the diskettes and the program, and the advertisement.  Later I
started charging about $12 but you seem to have bought the earlier
batches.  I guess I am dumb enough to do these things because I do send
in my registrations, and supply the requested information to IBM tech
support.

You because you didn't send your registration or system configuration
information.

>
>So, I ask again, do you intend to reimburse me for the cost of the software and 
>shipping, or for the time necessary to compile all the listings you required just to
>get advice on how to install the thing?   Were mine the only case in which you 

You have not registered the software as required for support, and I did
go out of my way to give you initial support until your registration
arrived.  You still refused to send in a registration.

>made such absurd demands, I would have long since chalked up the entire matter 
>to experience, and just framed the diskette with a Cavaet Emptor logo surrounding
>it.  IT WAS NOT!  In fact, UntieCom was the topic of considerable discussion on 
>FidoNet and a large local BBS for quite some time - 99% of it negative, and many of
>the complaints were the same as mine - the POS would not even install!

Probaly pirates on Fido who didn't want to contact me for assistance
because I did require the registration for support although I didn't
insist on it while it was in the mail I would be doing the support.

>
>Perhaps I should post the correspondence I received from you, and that forwarded 
>to me by others, so that everyone can decide for him/herself just who is shitting 
>whom here!

Well, I have it appended.  As for others' e-mail, please post so that we
can verify the truth of their correspondence.

>
>>What about our wage losses if it takes us half a day?
>
>Indeed!  Trust me here, I spent a lot longer than that trying to get the thing 
>installed, and that doesn't count a minute of the time I'd have to have spent
>compiling all the foolish data you *required* if I wanted to get the thing 
>INSTALLED!

You mean you tried repeatedly to install for half a day.  What's the
point of repeating a process that doesn't go thru?  If you sent your
registration in, we would have escalated the question to IBM if
necessary.

Mind you Steve, I have posted the e-mail correspondence below.  I asked
you several times to send in your registration while I was extending the
initial support.  The registration did not arrive.  Furthermore, I had
received a previous attempt from an account McCrystal at execpc, which
also had refused to send in the registration.

I explained to you why I need to know about the system configuration
etc., yet you refused to send any of the information.   You know, with
IBMs Software installer, and with your workplace shell refusing to
create the object on the dekstop, it is very hard for me to know what's
going on in your system.  I asked you for the configuration, some people
don't even use a WPS.

All I got was all kinds of signals that you didn't have an invoice for
the product and you  didn't want to send a registration.  No
registration, no support.

Here is the e-mail.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* From execpc.com!stevem Tue Mar 21 09:16:45 1995 remote from mistik
* Received:  from msen by mistik.express.net (UUPC/extended 1.12n) with UUCP
*            for mistik.express.net!UnTieCom; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:16:44 -0500
* Received: from earth.execpc.com by heifetz.msen.com with smtp
* 	(Smail3.1.28.1 #12) id m0rr3id-000ZaJC; Tue, 21 Mar 95 08:11 EST
* Received: from earth (earth [204.29.202.50]) by earth.execpc.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id GAA17959 for <UnTieCom@mistik.express.net>; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:52:20 -0600
* Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:52:18 -0600 (CST)
* From: Steve Mccrystal <stevem@execpc.com>
* X-Sender: stevem@earth
* To: UnTieCom@mistik.express.net
* Subject: How?
* Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950321064800.17604A-100000@earth>
* MIME-Version: 1.0
* Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
* 
* Mustafa,
*  
* I recently bought a copy of UnTieCom from Indellible Blue (S/N 00227) and 
* after spending two evenings attempting to install it, I still don't have 
* a single file on my hard drive!  Is there a trick?
*  
* FWIW, I'm running Warp FullPack, but I tried to install it on an OS/2 
* 2.11 machine with the same results.
* 
* I'd certainly welcome any suggestions you might have.
* 
* stevem@execpc.com
* 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Date:      Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:20:29 -0500
* From:      "MISTIK Systems" <UnTieCom@mistik.express.net>
* Organization: MISTIK Systems
* To:        "Steve Mccrystal" <stevem@execpc.com>
* Subject:   Re: How?
* 
* On Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:52:18 -0600 (CST), "Steve Mccrystal" <stevem@execpc.com> wrote:
* > Mustafa,
* 
* Hi Steve,
* 
* >  
* > I recently bought a copy of UnTieCom from Indellible Blue (S/N 00227) and 
* > after spending two evenings attempting to install it, I still don't have 
* > a single file on my hard drive!  Is there a trick?
* 
* Please send in your registration with a copy of your invoice.
* 
* >  
* > FWIW, I'm running Warp FullPack, but I tried to install it on an OS/2 
* > 2.11 machine with the same results.
* > 
* > I'd certainly welcome any suggestions you might have.
* 
* How much room do you have on your drives, and what is the symptom of
* failure? (other than files not being installed - does the installer
* report success?)
* 
* Do you have a corrupted partition with lots of room on it?
* 
* > 
* > stevem@execpc.com
* > 
* 
* 
* Best Regards,
* 
* Mustafa Soysal
* -- 
* UnTieCom@mistik.express.net (MISTIK Systems)
* 
*              (C) 1995 MISTIK Systems, All Rights Reserved.
* No permission to post or otherwise distribute unless explicity stated.
* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* MISTIK Systems, PO Box 7064, Ann Arbor MI 48107-7064, USA
* Voice: (313) 741-1844    Fax: (313) 741-1937
* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* From execpc.com!stevem Wed Mar 22 11:02:04 1995 remote from mistik
* Received:  from msen by mistik.express.net (UUPC/extended 1.12n) with UUCP
*            for mistik.express.net!UnTieCom; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:02:04 -0500
* Received: from earth.execpc.com by heifetz.msen.com with smtp
* 	(Smail3.1.28.1 #12) id m0rrQHS-000ZZDC; Wed, 22 Mar 95 08:16 EST
* Received: from earth (earth [204.29.202.50]) by earth.execpc.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id HAA18864 for <UnTieCom@mistik.express.net>; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:00:49 -0600
* Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:00:48 -0600 (CST)
* From: Steve Mccrystal <stevem@execpc.com>
* X-Sender: stevem@earth
* To: MISTIK Systems <UnTieCom@mistik.express.net>
* Subject: Re: How?
* In-Reply-To: <2f6ee0af.mistik@mistik.express.net>
* Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950322064957.18187A-100000@earth>
* MIME-Version: 1.0
* Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
* 
* 
* Mustafa,
*  
* > Please send in your registration with a copy of your invoice.
* 
* Seems like a lot of screwing around for a $10 program that won't install, 
* but if I can find it I'll send you a copy.
* 
* > How much room do you have on your drives,
* 
* There are >5 megs on all 4 logical devices ... ~10 megs on the drive I'm 
* trying to install to.
* 
* > and what is the symptom of failure?
* 
* "EPFIE234: Cannot create the UnTieCom (tm) object on the workplace shell.  
* The setup parameter string was ..."
* 
* The install program then offers to remove everything installed thus far, 
* which I allow it to do, altho leaving it there does makes no difference.  
* I've done this about 50 times so far, on two different machines and 
* always had the same results.
* 
* > Do you have a corrupted partition with lots of room on it?
* 
* No.
*  
* stevem@execpc.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Date:      Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:12:06 -0500
* From:      "MISTIK Systems" <UnTieCom@mistik.express.net>
* Organization: MISTIK Systems
* To:        "Steve Mccrystal" <stevem@execpc.com>
* Subject:   Re: How?
* 
* On Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:00:48 -0600 (CST), "Steve Mccrystal" <stevem@execpc.com> wrote:
* > 
* > Mustafa,
* >  
* > > Please send in your registration with a copy of your invoice.
* > 
* > Seems like a lot of screwing around for a $10 program that won't install, 
* > but if I can find it I'll send you a copy.
* 
* It is the only way for me to know that you actually paid the $10.  I am
* giving you a program a lot more woth than $10 and you are
* complaining....  The new price is $29.-
* 
* > 
* > > How much room do you have on your drives,
* > 
* > There are >5 megs on all 4 logical devices ... ~10 megs on the drive I'm 
* > trying to install to.
* 
* That seems to be OK.  Any network drives?
* 
* > 
* > > and what is the symptom of failure?
* > 
* > "EPFIE234: Cannot create the UnTieCom (tm) object on the workplace shell.  
* > The setup parameter string was ..."
* 
* Your Workplace shell may be messed up, of course if you are using one. 
* Some people don't use it.
* 
* I need a list of all cards, and software on your system, plus your
* config.sys for helping you.  Make sure you are not running the Toronto
* File System tvfs.ifs
* 
* > 
* > The install program then offers to remove everything installed thus far, 
* > which I allow it to do, altho leaving it there does makes no difference.  
* > I've done this about 50 times so far, on two different machines and 
* > always had the same results.
* 
* Repeating the same procedure more with the same setup won't make the
* computer tired of annoying you ;)
* 
* > 
* > > Do you have a corrupted partition with lots of room on it?
* > 
* > No.
* >  
* > stevem@execpc.com
* 
* You can find untiecom.inf on the installation disk which has the
* registration form in it.  You can print it out, and fill it out.  Then
* make sure to include a copy of the invoice.
* 
* Best Regards,
* 
* Mustafa Soysal
* 
* -- 
* UnTieCom@mistik.express.net (MISTIK Systems)
* 
*              (C) 1995 MISTIK Systems, All Rights Reserved.
* No permission to post or otherwise distribute unless explicity stated.
* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* MISTIK Systems, PO Box 7064, Ann Arbor MI 48107-7064, USA
* Voice: (313) 741-1844    Fax: (313) 741-1937
* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* From execpc.com!stevem Wed Mar 22 21:40:31 1995 remote from mistik
* Received:  from msen by mistik.express.net (UUPC/extended 1.12n) with UUCP
*            for mistik.express.net!UnTieCom; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:40:31 -0500
* Received: from earth.execpc.com by heifetz.msen.com with smtp
* 	(Smail3.1.28.1 #12) id m0rrbqv-000ZWiC; Wed, 22 Mar 95 20:38 EST
* Received: from earth (earth [204.29.202.50]) by earth.execpc.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id TAA25035 for <UnTieCom@mistik.express.net>; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:19:08 -0600
* Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:19:05 -0600 (CST)
* From: Steve Mccrystal <stevem@execpc.com>
* X-Sender: stevem@earth
* To: MISTIK Systems <UnTieCom@mistik.express.net>
* Subject: BRe: How?
* In-Reply-To: <2f704c57.mistik@mistik.express.net>
* Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950322190217.21121A-100000@earth>
* MIME-Version: 1.0
* Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
* 
* > It is the only way for me to know that you actually paid the $10. 
* 
* Sorry. I sorta resent the implication I'd actually pirate a $10 program 
* that won't even install.
* 
* > I am giving you a program a lot more woth than $10 and you are
* > complaining....  The new price is $29.-
* 
* Sorry again.  *IF* it installs and *if* it actually does something, it 
* *may* be worth more.   In fact, it *may* be worth $10.
*  
* > > "EPFIE234: Cannot create the UnTieCom (tm) object on the workplace shell.  
* > > The setup parameter string was ..."
* > 
* > Your Workplace shell may be messed up, of course if you are using one. 
* > Some people don't use it.
* 
* Let's concentrate on the above. THAT is where the problem lies.  FWIW, I 
* tried to install the thing on 5 other machines and it wouldn't install on 
* any of them. My WPS is not messed up!
* 
* > I need a list of all cards, and software on your system, plus your
* > config.sys for helping you.  Make sure you are not running the Toronto
* > File System tvfs.ifs
* Can I assume you're serious here?  Somehow I doubt it.
* 
* > Repeating the same procedure more with the same setup won't make the
* > computer tired of annoying you ;)
* 
* Nor, apparently, will trying to install it on several other machines.  
* The thing WILL NOT INSTALL on any machine on which I've tried it. 
*  
* > You can find untiecom.inf on the installation disk which has the
* > registration form in it.  You can print it out, and fill it out.  Then
* > make sure to include a copy of the invoice.
* 
* Do you suppose that will make it install?
* 
* Let me explain it another way ... at $0.50 per hour, I have spent 
* invested more than the program cost me trying to *install* it.  Now you 
* want me to spend several more hours documenting all my hardware, my 
* software, and convincing you I can count to 10.   
*  
* As I see it, Indelible Blue has their money, you have your money, and I 
* have a $18 (which I actually paid, according to the invoice) floppy disk 
* I can use for something else. I certainly can't use it to install your 
* program.  
* 
* It's been a real experience, tho.
* 
* stevem@execpc.com  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Date:      Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:48:42 -0500
* From:      "MISTIK Systems" <UnTieCom@mistik.express.net>
* Organization: MISTIK Systems
* To:        "Steve Mccrystal" <stevem@execpc.com>
* Subject:   Re: BRe: How?
* 
* On Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:19:05 -0600 (CST), "Steve Mccrystal" <stevem@execpc.com> wrote:
* > > It is the only way for me to know that you actually paid the $10. 
* > 
* > Sorry. I sorta resent the implication I'd actually pirate a $10 program 
* > that won't even install.
* 
* Actually, this is to prevent that from happening.
* 
* The Installer is an IBM Product and seems to do well.  There were only
* two problems with the Installer.  One is yours.  The other one was about
* an empty corrupted file partition.  The Installer seems to pick the
* largest available partition and use it for temporary files.  There is no
* way to control it for the OEM.
* 
* > 
* > > I am giving you a program a lot more woth than $10 and you are
* > > complaining....  The new price is $29.-
* > 
* > Sorry again.  *IF* it installs and *if* it actually does something, it 
* > *may* be worth more.   In fact, it *may* be worth $10.
* >  
* > > > "EPFIE234: Cannot create the UnTieCom (tm) object on the workplace shell.  
* > > > The setup parameter string was ..."
* > > 
* > > Your Workplace shell may be messed up, of course if you are using one. 
* > > Some people don't use it.
* > 
* > Let's concentrate on the above. THAT is where the problem lies.  FWIW, I 
* > tried to install the thing on 5 other machines and it wouldn't install on 
* > any of them. My WPS is not messed up!
* 
* It installed on everybody elses systems.
* 
* > 
* > > I need a list of all cards, and software on your system, plus your
* > > config.sys for helping you.  Make sure you are not running the Toronto
* > > File System tvfs.ifs
* > Can I assume you're serious here?  Somehow I doubt it.
* 
* I am very serious.  They can all affect your system.
* 
* > 
* > > Repeating the same procedure more with the same setup won't make the
* > > computer tired of annoying you ;)
* > 
* > Nor, apparently, will trying to install it on several other machines.  
* > The thing WILL NOT INSTALL on any machine on which I've tried it. 
* >  
* > > You can find untiecom.inf on the installation disk which has the
* > > registration form in it.  You can print it out, and fill it out.  Then
* > > make sure to include a copy of the invoice.
* > 
* > Do you suppose that will make it install?
* 
* That will provide you with support.
* 
* > 
* > Let me explain it another way ... at $0.50 per hour, I have spent 
* > invested more than the program cost me trying to *install* it.  Now you 
* > want me to spend several more hours documenting all my hardware, my 
* > software, and convincing you I can count to 10.   
* 
* This information is necessary for support.
* 
xe* >  
* > As I see it, Indelible Blue has their money, you have your money, and I 
* > have a $18 (which I actually paid, according to the invoice) floppy disk 
* > I can use for something else. I certainly can't use it to install your 
* > program.  
* > 
* > It's been a real experience, tho.
* > 
* > stevem@execpc.com  
* 
* Whether or not you get support is your choice.  I need the outlined
* information in order to help you.
* 
* Best Regards,
* 
* Mustafa Soysal
* 
* PS: Don't forget to sign the registration form.
* -- 
* UnTieCom@mistik.express.net (MISTIK Systems)
* 
*              (C) 1995 MISTIK Systems, All Rights Reserved.
* No permission to post or otherwise distribute unless explicity stated.
* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* MISTIK Systems, PO Box 7064, Ann Arbor MI 48107-7064, USA
* Voice: (313) 741-1844    Fax: (313) 741-1937
* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Best Regards,

Mustafa Soysal

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mustafa Soysal               (313) 741-1844 Voice                      TeamOS/2
MISTIK Systems               (313) 741-1937 Fax          Author of UnTieCom(tm)
PO Box 7064                                        Authorized Motorola Reseller
Ann Arbor, MI 48107-7064, USA                            os2@mistik.express.net
               Online catalog:  http://www.express.net/mistik/
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