🚀 go-pugleaf

smetan@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Bohdan Smetaniuk) wrote:

>I submitted the following question several days ago with no responses:

>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Can anyone help me?

>I am trying to install Warp Connect (red) on an IBM 350 - P90.

>The partitions on my disk are approximately as follows:

>    250MB Primary - DOS/Windows.
>      2MB Boot Manager
>    120MB Logical HPFS (for installing Warp Connect)
>    700MB Free space
>    120MB Logical (to be formatted as HPFS after installation)

>After the installation program copies whatever it requires from the
>CD ROM, it tells me to press enter to restart the machine. Instead of being
>rebooted into OS/2 to complete the install, the following happens:

>    - The message "Error reading Disk 2. Press any key" appears (I only
>      have one disk).

>    - After I press a key, the boot manager shows a menu. Only the DOS/Win
>      partition appears on the menu.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------

>Since then I've discovered that my 1.08 GB disk has 4896 cylinders and
>that Boot Manager must be loaded in the first 1024.

>Anyway, I shrunk the first partition to 180 MB, but have the same problem.
>A little further reading reveals that all partitions containing an operating
>system must be within the first 1024 cylinders (thanks IBM for making
>your software and hardware work together so well :-( ).

>Some questions:

>+ Do I have to put OS/2 in a partition which is *fully* within the first
>1024 cylinders? If yes, I assume that this means that it must be a primary
>partition.

>+ What are the implications if I want to run Windows programs on the
>first partition? (my OS/2 version is without Windows)?

>+ I had hoped to have several operating systems running on my PC but the
>cylinder problem could make this difficult. Would System Commander overcome
>the difficulties?

>+ Can the OS/2 version of Partition Magic function in a DOS environment? i.e.
>can I use it to further shrink my first partition before I install OS/2.

>Any other words of wisdom on this topic will be greatly appreciated.


>Bohdan Smetaniuk

1) Yes, OS/2 must be completely within the first 1023 cylinders.
     OS/2 can boot off of a LOGICAL partition i.e. it doesn't have to
     be primary. 
    NOTE: unless you have a recent bios which maps the drive to 
    within 1024  cylinders or less only HPFS will be able to use the 
    remaining space..

2) You can set up a primary partition with DOS+WIN or just win95.

3) I don't know System commander. I suspect you would have to
    upgrade your bios. You might also have to do a low level format
   although I'm not sure. You'd better ask a hardware person.

4) I've just been using Partition Magic (for the first time) and it's
    quite neat. My copy of version 2 came with dos executables
   as well as OS/2 ones. The DOS executable will be limited
  by the bios i.e. 1024 cylinders.
 
Good Luck

bvs@iinet.net.au (Martin Loeffler) wrote:

>smetan@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Bohdan Smetaniuk) wrote:

>>I submitted the following question several days ago with no responses:

>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Can anyone help me?

>>I am trying to install Warp Connect (red) on an IBM 350 - P90.

>>The partitions on my disk are approximately as follows:

>>    250MB Primary - DOS/Windows.
>>      2MB Boot Manager
>>    120MB Logical HPFS (for installing Warp Connect)
>>    700MB Free space
>>    120MB Logical (to be formatted as HPFS after installation)

>>After the installation program copies whatever it requires from the
>>CD ROM, it tells me to press enter to restart the machine. Instead of being
>>rebooted into OS/2 to complete the install, the following happens:

>>    - The message "Error reading Disk 2. Press any key" appears (I only
>>      have one disk).

>>    - After I press a key, the boot manager shows a menu. Only the DOS/Win
>>      partition appears on the menu.
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Since then I've discovered that my 1.08 GB disk has 4896 cylinders and
>>that Boot Manager must be loaded in the first 1024.

>>Anyway, I shrunk the first partition to 180 MB, but have the same problem.
>>A little further reading reveals that all partitions containing an operating
>>system must be within the first 1024 cylinders (thanks IBM for making
>>your software and hardware work together so well :-( ).

>>Some questions:

>>+ Do I have to put OS/2 in a partition which is *fully* within the first
>>1024 cylinders? If yes, I assume that this means that it must be a primary
>>partition.

>>+ What are the implications if I want to run Windows programs on the
>>first partition? (my OS/2 version is without Windows)?

>>+ I had hoped to have several operating systems running on my PC but the
>>cylinder problem could make this difficult. Would System Commander overcome
>>the difficulties?

>>+ Can the OS/2 version of Partition Magic function in a DOS environment? i.e.
>>can I use it to further shrink my first partition before I install OS/2.

>>Any other words of wisdom on this topic will be greatly appreciated.


>>Bohdan Smetaniuk

>1) Yes, OS/2 must be completely within the first 1023 cylinders.
>     OS/2 can boot off of a LOGICAL partition i.e. it doesn't have to
>     be primary. 
>    NOTE: unless you have a recent bios which maps the drive to 
>    within 1024  cylinders or less only HPFS will be able to use the 
>    remaining space..
Minor correction,
OS/2 can handle cylinder addresses as high as you like (the limit is
very high) BUT until OS/2 is fully loaded and operational the BIOS is
handling all the IO and the operating system loader is VERY DOSlike.
This is the base cause of the 1023 cylinder limit.
 

>2) You can set up a primary partition with DOS+WIN or just win95.

>3) I don't know System commander. I suspect you would have to
>    upgrade your bios. You might also have to do a low level format
>   although I'm not sure. You'd better ask a hardware person.

>4) I've just been using Partition Magic (for the first time) and it's
>    quite neat. My copy of version 2 came with dos executables
>   as well as OS/2 ones. The DOS executable will be limited
>  by the bios i.e. 1024 cylinders.
> 
>Good Luck

Bohdan Smetaniuk <smetan@titan.trl.OZ.AU> wrote:

>I submitted the following question several days ago with no responses:

This is the first time I've seen this in comp.os.os2.misc.

>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Can anyone help me?
>
>I am trying to install Warp Connect (red) on an IBM 350 - P90.
>
>The partitions on my disk are approximately as follows:
>
>    250MB Primary - DOS/Windows.
>      2MB Boot Manager
>    120MB Logical HPFS (for installing Warp Connect)
>    700MB Free space
>    120MB Logical (to be formatted as HPFS after installation)
>
>After the installation program copies whatever it requires from the
>CD ROM, it tells me to press enter to restart the machine. Instead of being
>rebooted into OS/2 to complete the install, the following happens:
>
>    - The message "Error reading Disk 2. Press any key" appears (I only
>      have one disk).
>
>    - After I press a key, the boot manager shows a menu. Only the DOS/Win
>      partition appears on the menu.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Since then I've discovered that my 1.08 GB disk has 4896 cylinders and
>that Boot Manager must be loaded in the first 1024.

Errrk.  My Gig disk has something like 1004 cylinders, which is very
handy.  I have no problems with placing operating systems anywhere on
the disk.

>Anyway, I shrunk the first partition to 180 MB, but have the same problem.
>A little further reading reveals that all partitions containing an operating
>system must be within the first 1024 cylinders (thanks IBM for making
>your software and hardware work together so well :-( ).

>Some questions:

>+ Do I have to put OS/2 in a partition which is *fully* within the first
>1024 cylinders? If yes, I assume that this means that it must be a primary
>partition.

According to the documentation you have just quoted, yes.
However, this does *not* mean that it must be a primary partition.
If that were to be true, then no disk with less than 1024 cylinders
could have extended partitions.  This is evidently not the case.

Primary and extended partitions can actually live at any position on
the disk (as far as I am aware).  However, as you have discovered
there are limitations on what you can do with those partitions
(primary or extended) that are on cylinders greater than 1023.

[...remaining questions snipped...]

Sorry, I don't have answers for these questions.

-- 
Bernie Maier                    The Internet: not so much the Information
Home: blurk@wr.com.au           Superhighway as a large, multi-storied,
Work: blurk@ot.com.au           over-crowded, Information Parking Lot.

>     250MB Primary - DOS/Windows.
>       2MB Boot Manager
>     120MB Logical HPFS (for installing Warp Connect)
>     700MB Free space
>     120MB Logical (to be formatted as HPFS after installation)
> 
> After the installation program copies whatever it requires from the
> CD ROM, it tells me to press enter to restart the machine. Instead of being
> rebooted into OS/2 to complete the install, the following happens:
> 
>     - The message "Error reading Disk 2. Press any key" appears (I only
>       have one disk).

Odd.

>     - After I press a key, the boot manager shows a menu. Only the DOS/Win
>       partition appears on the menu.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Since then I've discovered that my 1.08 GB disk has 4896 cylinders and
> that Boot Manager must be loaded in the first 1024.

If your BIOS cannot remap the drive (which it appears it cannot) all of your OS's 
must reside in partitions which begin and end in the first 1024 cylinders (or the 
first ~200 megabytes of your drive (wait a minute, 4896 cylinders can't be right 
if you've got a 250 meg dos primary - check this).  This because the BIOS 
contains a 10 bit pointer which can address 2^10, or 1024 cylinders.  BootMan 
uses the BIOS.  If your OS resides outside this range, you can't get at its boot 
sector.  With newer geometry remapping BIOS's, this problem becomes moot, since 
the drive mapping scheme is altered, and a > 1024 cylinder drive can be made to 
appear as a < 1024 cylinder drive at the BIOS level.

> Some questions:
> 
> + Do I have to put OS/2 in a partition which is *fully* within the first
> 1024 cylinders? If yes, I assume that this means that it must be a primary
> partition.

Yes, you do - if you're not using BIOS remapping (i.e. LBA).  If you remap, you 
can place an OS outside the first 1024 physical drive cylinders (not to be 
confused the number of cylinders emulated by the BIOS).  On-Track will not help 
you here - it only helps DOS access above 1024 cyls.

OS/2 may reside on an extended partition which meets the above 1024 constraint.

> + What are the implications if I want to run Windows programs on the
> first partition? (my OS/2 version is without Windows)?

I'm not sure what you mean here.  If you already own Windows 3.x, you should be 
able to run it just fine in both seamless and fullscreen sessions.  In fact, the 
OS/2 install should detect it, and add it's icons to a folder in your desktop.

But you can't run windows if both it and OS/2 are on separate primaries.  You 
can only map one primary at a time (unless you're very devious).  
 
> + I had hoped to have several operating systems running on my PC but the
> cylinder problem could make this difficult. Would System Commander overcome
> the difficulties?

Probably not.  System Commander overcomes a few limitations with BootMan, but 
still uses the BIOS to address the drive.
 
> + Can the OS/2 version of Partition Magic function in a DOS environment? i.e.
> can I use it to further shrink my first partition before I install OS/2.


That's a good question.  PM-DOS can manipulate drives that fall in the 
aforementioned 1024 cylinder limit.  If you can't get at the whole drive, then 
how can you partion it correctly?


I think your best bet is to:

I. back up your system

II.  if your bios is not capable of remapping you drive:

(b) load OS/2 off of your installation diskettes, "exit to command prompt"

(c) run partion magic (OS/2 does not use the bios to address the drive, so you 
should see the whole thing)

i.  Create a 1 meg primary partition for BootMan at the front of the drive.

ii.  Shrink your existing primary C: to a bare minimum; you've only got ~200 megs 
of bootable space to play with (PM should help you figure out exactly where your 
boot cut-off is), don't waste it with windows crap.  A full DOS install shouldn't 
need over 10 megs.  Since XDFCopy uses drive C:, make sure you leave a couple 
megs free (if you've got PC-Dos 7).

iii.  Create a second primary partion for OS2, in the remaining space under your 
determined "boot cap".  Red connect will probably fit in 100 megs.  Format it in 
HPFS.

iv.  Create an extended partion to encompass the remainder of the drive.  Create 
a Drive D: and format it in FAT.  Use this one for all of your DOS/Windows 
applications.  Create a Drive E: and format it in HPFS.  This will contain your 
OS/2 apps and whatever else you won't mind hiding from DOS.

(d)  Quit PM and run OS/2's FDISK.  Install BM on the first 1 meg partition.  Set 
the large primary partition as Active.

(e)  Quit FDISK and run the OS/2 install, sticking it on your large HPFS C:.

(f)  Reload Windows on your new D: FAT drive.  I assume you were already running 
On-Track disk manager under DOS, so you shouldn't have a problem accessing this 
drive.

III.  if your bios can remap your drive, forget the above, figure out how to 
remap the drive under 1024, and re-set-up your system however you please.


I've just given you a hack solution to your problem, and have undoubtedly left 
out many finer details.  In the interests of time though, you should have enough 
to get started.