🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <75294@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt7692b@prism.gatech.EDU (Constantinos Malamas) writes:
>From: gt7692b@prism.gatech.EDU (Constantinos Malamas)
>Subject: Questions on OS2 2.0 from a _potential_ user. HELP !!!!
>Date: 18 Nov 92 18:03:06 GMT
>
>	I am the prud owner of a new 486DX33, and I am seriosly
>considering installing OS/2 2.0 as my OS... Before I spend $125 on the
>package though, I wanna some input by you, fellow netters:

Before you spend $125 you should call IBM and tell them you'd be happy to 
send in the title page of that windows manual I just _know_ you have if you 
just bought a machine. [windoze follows new computers like a plague.]

>	o  Due to a small (comparatively) HD (107MB), I will probably
>install Stacker 2.0, that I used on my old machine. Now I _heard_ that OS2
>requires ~30MB for its swap files. Is this true? How close is this figure
>to actual performance? most importantly-- will OS2 be able to access the
>Stacker drive to dump its swap files (unlike Windows)? are this files so
>compressed that this is not efficient anyway?

This whole argument depends on what kind of a setup you go for. If you go 
for multiple partitions, then you can use Stacker in the DOS partition (and 
forget about accessing it from OS/2). 

That 30M figure is really closer to 40M and that is for the whole package - 
OS/2, Emulated DOS, WIN OS/2 (emulated windoze), and a reasonably sized swap 
file.

If you really have your heart set on Stacker there should be an OS/2 version 
in commercial release real soon now. (I believe beta testing is wrapping up 
as we speak..)

>	o  How does OS2 run DOS and Windows apps? Does it emulate these
>two exceptional os's (NOT!!!! :))...) or does it require the actual DOS
>and Windows OS software to be installed on the HD?

As I said before, it depends on your setup. You have basically 3 options:

1) All OS/2. You reformat the whole drive and install OS/2 as your only 
operating system. You don't need DOS or Windows with this choice, they're 
built in to OS/2.

2) Dual Boot. This means you have to stay with the FAT system (as opposed to 
the really cool HPFS system where you can name files stuff like 
'A letter to my girlfriend' instead of 'LETTER01.DOC'). With a Dual Boot you 
have OS2, DOS, and Windows all installed on the same drive. You have to type 
in a command to switch operating systems.

3) Boot Manager. This gives you a menu at bootup that asks you which 
operating system to boot. You also have to partition your drive into 3 
pieces to do this. 

>	o  How much space will the OS2 files take up?

A full install runs about 33M plus around 5-8M for your swapfile [depending 
on how much physical RAM you have]. There are a lot of applets you could 
kill to save some space, but I personally use them a lot and would never 
dream of doing such a thing. Then again, I have a total of 235M of HD space 
between my two drives...

>	o  How power-intensive is OS2 anyway? Will it take up so much uf
>the CPU that really BIG programms (Mathematica 2.0 for DOS, for example) will
>not run fast enough? 

Well, under OS/2, Mathematica 2.0 for DOS won't run at all. (Options 2 and 3 
above will allow you to run it, but you won't be in OS/2 at the time.) 
Mathematica 2.1 is purported to work fine, but as the owner of a non-
coprocessed machine I have yet to test that theory.

Good luck, and I welcome you in advance to the 90's. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Luzynski @ Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, OH
sal8@po.cwru.edu             | voice calls cheerlessly accepted at x2153.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
happy people are deluding themselves that there is nothing wrong.

gt7692b@prism.gatech.EDU (Constantinos Malamas) writes:

>       I am the prud owner of a new 486DX33, and I am seriosly
> considering installing OS/2 2.0 as my OS... Before I spend $125 on the
> package though, I wanna some input by you, fellow netters:

Nice machine, make sure you have at LEAST 8 meg of memory.  IBM was
foolish to suggest 4M as a minimum.  Even if they belived it
themselves, it would have been smarter to say 5 M and let us netters
leak it to each other as 'unofficial info' that 4M MIGHT work.
Second, don't spend $125.. Spend $99+5 shipping from PC Connection
1-800-800-5555 (thats overnight delivery, and no.. I don't work for
them.. Just a very please customer that bought OS/2 2.0 from them)

>       o  Due to a small (comparatively) HD (107MB), I will probably
> install Stacker 2.0, that I used on my old machine. Now I _heard_ that OS2
> requires ~30MB for its swap files. Is this true? How close is this figure
> to actual performance? most importantly-- will OS2 be able to access the
> Stacker drive to dump its swap files (unlike Windows)? are this files so
> compressed that this is not efficient anyway?

No, util Stac puts out its promised OS/2 version.. All compressed disks
via Stacker are a 'Dos-thing'.  Personally, I've been screwed by SStor
and Stacker both in Dos.. I won't let it near my OS/2 machine till at
least one revision goes by.  (I have nothing against the concept, or
the CURRENT DOS versions.. but I have the arrows in my back from the
early buggy versions...  With OS/2.. the potential for bugs.. not
having a properly shut down OS/2.. etc.. scares the @%@%%! out of me)

You have inaccurate information about its HD needs.  Its more like 34
meg for a full install (including lots of stuff you can delete later,
and/or don't need.. the games, the tutorial..etc.. personally.. I nuked
the tutorial and kept the applets) and with 8M of memory about 4M
(average) for a permanant (no such thing as a temp.. its a swap file..
its there.. even if you don't ask for it/need it.  Just smaller) swap
file.  A 4M ram system is going to be slow, regardless of your CPU
speed.  The Swapper.dat will grow till are ready to shoot your system
to put it out of your misery.  'Budget' 40M for the base OS and your
home free.  Apps of course take whatever they need.

You CAN of course have a stacker/sstor volume still around.  Just don't
expect OS/2 or the VDM dos boxes to get to them.  You can dual-boot (or
boot manager) to native DOS for access to such items.
Not worth it over here, but special needs call for special messes.

>       o  How does OS2 run DOS and Windows apps? Does it emulate these
> two exceptional os's (NOT!!!! :))...) or does it require the actual DOS
> and Windows OS software to be installed on the HD?

Totally self contained.  DOS is an emulated varient of DOS 5.0, and
Windows support is currently at 3.0 level.  Win3.1 level is promised
RSN.  (i.e.. don't hold breath, but it will happen if you wait)
When you buy the upgrade from DOS kit.. (price above).. it must find an
installed DOS.  This is to say.. at least a HD which has had a SYS
command applied to it.  (A fresh HD was installed after format with
only SYS C: applied.. so its obviously only concerned with the hidden
files and/or a Command.com)

>       o  How much space will the OS2 files take up?

As above.. about 32M for the base, and 2/4/6/8 for swap.. depending on
your memory condition.  Have 8+ MEG

>       o  How power-intensive is OS2 anyway? Will it take up so much uf
> the CPU that really BIG programms (Mathematica 2.0 for DOS, for example) will
> not run fast enough?

Don't use that particular program, however.. I've run several intense
DOS apps in Full screens while downloading at 14.4K without errors.
I've also run several other large programs and been brought to a snails
pace.  It would be unfair to say anything universal as 'Yes' or 'no'..
OS/2 isn't perfect (GASP.. Bye world.. This group is going to terminate
me!).. but its sure a heck of alot better than multitasking under any
other comparable resource requiring and/or priced OS for Intel machines.
I again.. won't make a universal statement that being the 'best' is
going to also be 'fast enough'.. However, from a personal standpoint
over here.. Its my personal choice.

A word of warning.  (actually several)
1. Have enough memory (worth repeating this many times)
2. Don't let the drive run out of drive space when it wants to make a
   bigger swapper.dat  (related to #1.. This SHOULDN't be a problem)
3. Verify driver support exists for your hardware.. (i.e. Video,
   CD-Rom, SCSI card, etc..etc) if its important that you not have to
   wait for a driver to get something working.  (i.e. my Diamond
   SpeedStar 24X card.. unsupported in above stock VGA.., my old and
   slow Trident 8900b, a full set of drivers for anything I could every
   want..etc)
4. Be prepared to find and install something called the 'Service Pak'
   which was released 10-29-92.  It fixes 250+ bugs, as well as adds
   more SVGA support and upgrades the 16-bit Graphics Engine to the
   32-bit level.  Its available from the IBM NSC bbs in GA,
   1-404-835-6600 (double check this before you call.. std disclaimer)
   for next available modem.. usually V.32
   1-404-835-5300 (double check this before you call.. std disclaimer)
   for a USR DS (V.32bis) connection.
   Its more economical however to find someone that has it locally than
   to download 14 1.44M floppy images (plus LDF.com if you don't have
   it) at LD rates.
   Its generally worth installing the Service Pak (SP) even if you have
   NO problems.  Future add-ons, upgrade products..etc. may assume a
   syslevel of General Availablity (GA) with the SP installed over it.
   You can of course enjoy playing with it all you like without the SP.
   we all more or less survived without it before it was available.
5. Keep good backups.  What was important under DOS is twice as
   important under OS/2.  Unfortunately, many of us with unsupported
   tape drives are still in the cold.  Check this before you buy a tape
   drive if you don't already have one.  Good quality Diskette backup
   programs do exist and work.  I suggest Obackup, though I don't use
   it personally.
6. Don't get frustrated, too many good people that really would have
   enjoyed the benifits of OS/2 have given up before making the system
   work.  Its really no harder than making DOS work, and certainly from
   my viewpoint easier than getting a single DOS memory manager to work
   all the time.  Unfortunately, I know far too many people that just
   gave up.  I can only help so many install it.  (FWIW dept..
   including my own, and NOT including re-installs on same machines..
   I've installed 2.0 GA on 43 machines.. 25 of them in one day, aprox
   40/min machine.. though that 25 I did 10 at a time.. It was quite a
   three ring circus running from machine to machine putting the next
   disk in.)  (Also FWIW, all copies of OS/2 GA were legit.. I looked
   at the proof of ownership card and other proof of ownership.  It was
   a deal I made at a local user group meeting to help as many people
   install it as I could.  All but 1 machine worked first try.. not
   perfectly, but enough to make alot of people happy)
7. Good Luck, and while some might say that I'm crazy for even
   mentioning OS/2's failings.. You are better served to go into it
   with your eyes open.  I don't think you will regret it.  I don't
   work for IBM.. and the only thing I EVER got for installing those
   copies of OS/2 was a couple pieces of Pizza.. (it was an OS/2
   install party!)

baustin@bluemoon.com