🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <C1ED3n.7yv@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com>, danielh@hpber199.swiss.hp.com (Daniel Huber) writes:
> Hi there,
> 
> As I know, Q3 is a CCITT standart for network management of
> telecommunications environments.

The q3-reference point is part of the concept of the
Telecommunications Management Network (TMN) as it is defined in
CCITT Recommendation M.3010. A q3-reference point "connects" two
function blocks. If these functions blocks are implemented in two
different physical systems (operations systems or network
elements) then the q3-refence points are implemented as a
Q3-interface. This interface takes care of the exchange of
management information between operations systems and network
elements. 

> Is there somwhere more info to find about this topic? Is there an RFC?

Yes, CCITT recommendation M.3010 and related recommendations. No  
there is no RFC since it is a CCITT recommendation.

> Is Q3 somehow related to CMIP or CMOT?

Yes it is. An OSI stack witk CMIP in layer 7 is used for a 
Q3-interface.

    Mike

In article <C1ED3n.7yv@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com>, danielh@hpber199.swiss.hp.com 
(Daniel Huber) writes:

>As I know, Q3 is a CCITT standart for network management of
>telecommunications environments.
>
>Is there somwhere more info to find about this topic? Is there an RFC?
>Is Q3 somehow related to CMIP or CMOT?

I suspect that the Q3 you are referring to is the *reference point* Q3, it
is not a standard itself, but defined by Q.941 or thereabouts (Q.94?).
There is also a Q1 and Q2 reference point. There is no connection between
the Q in Q3 and the Q in Q.941, that is purely coincidal. (The I series
recommendations define similar R, S and T reference points.)

I do not have Q.941 available right now, but as far as I remember, Q3
defines the lowest level functionality between a switch and an "MD" (Mediation
Device, something like a concentrator), on the way to the management system,
while Q1 is the functionality available at the user level system management.

If you are not accustomed to reading CCITT recommendations, Q.94? is
NOT the place to start!

In article <1993Jan26.075848.28882W@lumina.edb.tih.no> ketil@edb.tih.no (Ketil Albertsen,TIH) writes:

> In article <C1ED3n.7yv@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com>, danielh@hpber199.swiss.hp.com 
> (Daniel Huber) writes:
> 
> >As I know, Q3 is a CCITT standart for network management of
> >telecommunications environments.
> >
> >Is there somwhere more info to find about this topic? Is there an RFC?
> >Is Q3 somehow related to CMIP or CMOT?
> 
> I suspect that the Q3 you are referring to is the *reference point* Q3, it
> is not a standard itself, but defined by Q.941 or thereabouts (Q.94?).
> There is also a Q1 and Q2 reference point. There is no connection between
> the Q in Q3 and the Q in Q.941, that is purely coincidal. (The I series
> recommendations define similar R, S and T reference points.)
> 
> I do not have Q.941 available right now, but as far as I remember, Q3
> defines the lowest level functionality between a switch and an "MD" (Mediation
> Device, something like a concentrator), on the way to the management system,
> while Q1 is the functionality available at the user level system management.
> 
> If you are not accustomed to reading CCITT recommendations, Q.94? is
> NOT the place to start!

Wrong, although not entirely wrong. The base document to ce
is CCITT's TMN (Telecommunications Management Network) architecture,
described in the M.3010 document (formerly M.30). Roughly speaking, this
builds a management architecture on top of ISO's network management
standards. The TMN architecture consists of several functional elements:
NEF (Network Element Function): Functions related to management of pieces
  of telecommunications equipment, with a standardized management interface.
QAF (Q-Adapter Function): A functional block to integrate equipment with
  non-standard management interfaces, like a proxy-agent in SNMP.
MF (Mediation Function): Adapts, filters and condenses information from
  NEFs/QAFs before further processing by the management system.
OSF (Operations Systems Function): Runs the management applications.
WSF (WorkStation Function): Runs the user interface.

Between the different functional blocks, reference points are defined:
'g' from a WSF to a user, 'f' from a WSF and some other functional block
(usually an OSF), 'q3' between OSFs and from an OSF to MF/NEF/QAF (the
MF is optional, allowing direct interactions from NEF/QAF to MF), 'qx'
between NEF/QAF and MF or between MFs.
If two functional blocks are realized within one piece of equipment, the
reference point between them is an internal interface, and its implementation
is not standardized. If the blocks are in different pieces of equipment,
the reference point must be realized as a standardized communication inter-
face, denoted by a capitalization of the letter, e.g. 'Q3'.

The Q3 interface is described somewhere. I don't have the reference at hand,
but the one given above may be correct. It consists of a protocol part,
basically CMIS/CMIP, but sometimes FTAM may be included as well (other
protocols for further study), and an information part, i.e. the Shared
Management Knowledge (SMK) between the two sides of the interface - know-
ledge about manged object classes and managed object instances. Some propose
to add a security part, or more generally a quality of service part, to the
interface specification as well.
As can be read form this, there isn't _one_ Q3 interface. All Q3 interfaces
will differ in their SMK, possibly also in choice of protocols. In all cases,
communication across the interface is standardized, however.

Well, TMN is a bit more complicated than this - enough for now!

Jon Olnes, Norwegian Computing Centre, Oslo, Norway
E-mail: Jon.Olnes@nr.no   or   jon@ifi.uio.no

In article <CMM.0.90.2.728041349.jon@gode.ifi.uio.no>, "Jon \\lnes" 
<jon@ifi.uio.no> writes:

>In article <1993Jan26.075848.28882W@lumina.edb.tih.no> ketil@edb.tih.no (Ketil 
>Albertsen,TIH) writes:

>> I suspect that the Q3 you are referring to is the *reference point* Q3, it
>> is not a standard itself, but defined by Q.941 or thereabouts (Q.94?).

>Wrong, although not entirely wrong. The base document to ce
>is CCITT's TMN (Telecommunications Management Network) architecture,
>described in the M.3010 document (formerly M.30). 

Mea culpa. I checked my stack of old notes, and a lot of the TMN stuff
WERE labelled Q.942. But those were 1987 working drafts, and the info was
reorganized (into the M series) before the 1988 CCITT pleanry assembly.

But:

>If two functional blocks are realized within one piece of equipment, the
>reference point between them is an internal interface, and its implementation
>is not standardized. If the blocks are in different pieces of equipment,
>the reference point must be realized as a standardized communication inter-
>face, denoted by a capitalization of the letter, e.g. 'Q3'.

Are you certain that you are not turning it upside-down? I have always
been told (by telecom people) that conceptual reference points are labelled
with uppercase letters, while physical interfaces are labelled with
lowercase ones. If you look in the ISDN standards, eg. I.210, the ref
points are consistenly called R, S, T (defining *functionality*); if an
NT2 and an operator TE1 is physically integrated you still have an S
reference point but no physical "s" interface. Or is it me turning it
around? (I am not a telecom man myself!)

In article <1993Jan26.075848.28882W@lumina.edb.tih.no> ketil@edb.tih.no (Ketil Albertsen,TIH) writes:
>In article <C1ED3n.7yv@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com>, danielh@hpber199.swiss.hp.com 
>(Daniel Huber) writes:
>
>>As I know, Q3 is a CCITT standart for network management of
>>telecommunications environments.
>>
>I suspect that the Q3 you are referring to is the *reference point* Q3, it
>is not a standard itself, but defined by Q.941 or thereabouts (Q.94?).

No, this might seem trivial but it is not. The Q3 is an interface
whereas the reference point is called q3. (Capital Q versus little q)

The Q.xxx recommendation (can't check at home) describes protocol stacks
for the Q3 interface and not for the reference point. See also my
earlier posting for the difference between the reference point and the
interface (posted under the name of mschenk@research.ptt.nl because of a
change in posting software).

>There is also a Q1 and Q2 reference point. There is no connection between
>the Q in Q3 and the Q in Q.941, that is purely coincidal. (The I series
>recommendations define similar R, S and T reference points.)

The Q1 and Q2 interfaces are not used anymore. The Qx interface is.
>
>I do not have Q.941 available right now, but as far as I remember, Q3
>defines the lowest level functionality between a switch and an "MD" (Mediation
>Device, something like a concentrator), on the way to the management system,
>while Q1 is the functionality available at the user level system management.
>
>If you are not accustomed to reading CCITT recommendations, Q.94? is
>NOT the place to start!

You should try to get hold of M.3010 which defines the entire TMN
concept. This recommendation also refers to other documents.

	Mike

In article <C1ED3n.7yv@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com> danielh@hpber199.swiss.hp.com (Daniel Huber) writes:
>Hi there,
>
>As I know, Q3 is a CCITT standart for network management of
>telecommunications environments.
>
>Is there somwhere more info to find about this topic? Is there an RFC?
>Is Q3 somehow related to CMIP or CMOT?
>

Please refer to following ISO/OSI Standards:
	M.3010	Principles for a telecommunications management network
	M.3020	TMN interface specification methodology
	M.3100	Generic network information model
	M.3180	Catalogue of TMN management information
	M.3200	TMN Management service overview
	M.3300	TMN Management facilities presented at the F interface
	M.3400	TMN Management functions

regards,
Nique.
-- 
Nick Lochrin                 nick@titan.alcatel.oz.au
Alcatel Australia Limited    ...!uunet!titan.alcatel.oz!nick
252-280 Botany Road,         nick%titan.alcatel.oz@uunet.UU.NET
ALEXANDRIA  NSW  2015        Alcanet memo: AALC.LOCHRINN

In article <1993Jan27.183959.14698@spider.research.ptt.nl> M.R.Schenk@research.ptt.nl (Mike Schenk +31 70 33 23926) writes:
>No, this might seem trivial but it is not. The Q3 is an interface
>whereas the reference point is called q3. (Capital Q versus little q)

Just when i thought they couldn't possibly make things any more confusing....