Thread View: comp.protocols.time.ntp
4 messages
4 total messages
Started by system PRIVILEGED account
Tue, 01 Mar 1994 16:22
NTP in demand dialup network
Author: system PRIVILEGED account
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 1994 16:22
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 1994 16:22
56 lines
4036 bytes
4036 bytes
Apologies to comp.protocols.time.ntp readers if this problem is either (a) obvious or (b) boring. Executive summary: how do I synchronise a network with the Internet servers if I only have a demand-dial link, not a permanently connected one? We run a small network of UNIX boxes, mainly running things like SunOs V4, in which we use xntp V3.3 to keep a decent local idea of time for the purposes of logging events and doing things like "make". The structure of the network's ntp subnet is straightforward: every machine is running xntpd. One machine (yankee, a Sun-3) has "the clock" (its xntpd synchronises with 127.127.1.10) and the rest synchronise to it. This met our first set of objectives (time-like behaviour of the local clocks) fairly easily. Of course, the machines don't know whether the time they hold in common is correct in any sense, but they do end up closely synchronised. Recently, we got a dial-up connection to the Internet, and it occurred to me that it would be useful to make use of the net time servers to get our internal network running on "real" time as well as just being internally consistent. Our IP supplier runs a stratum 2 service, so we don't even have to go far afield to get "good enough" time for our purposes. We are running the dialup service off the same Sun-3 that our ntp subnet synchronises off, so it seemed reasonable to try and do the synchronisation of our net by running ntpdate each time we connect. This would, I thought, slew the local clock on yankee and the rest of the network would follow. (Obviously, I didn't want to tell yankee's xntpd about the internet time servers because it would end up prodding them rather often to find out what the time is, and the implied local telephone calls are not free round here. Not to mention that there may be a 50-second asymmetric delay for the ntp packets because of dialling the phone.) Unfortunately, ntpdate won't set the clock on yankee if it notices that the ntp port is in use (xntpd is running). I can't stop the xntpd on yankee or the rest of my network won't be able to synchronise with it. Next, I tried running ntpdate in debug mode, which tells me what adjustment it would like to make. I tried to apply this adjustment using "date -a" to slew the clock slowly round to the new value, but I get some "adjustment didn't complete" messages from xntpd, presumably because, even though it is taking its time from the local clock on yankee, it is also continuously "correcting" that local time (by zero-size adjustments) to correct for the (zero) drift it believes it has (!) Next, I tried using "rdate" rather than "ntpdate" to get the time from the network servers. Although this works in the sense that yankee's time (and therefore the network time) is now always within a couple of seconds of the rest of the world, it is very jittery and the machines sometimes even run backwards a half second or so. Nasty. I'm out of clues at this point. Is what I am doing really such a misuse of xntp that no-one has been through this before? Any suggestions welcome (except the ones about buying a permanent internet link to replace our demand-dial one, and the ones about buying a radio clock...) -- Ian
Re: NTP in demand dialup network
Author: Alan Barrett
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 08:17
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 08:17
23 lines
1874 bytes
1874 bytes
In article <CLzutI.586@threel.co.uk>, iay@threel.co.uk (system PRIVILEGED account) writes: > Executive summary: how do I synchronise a network with the Internet > servers if I only have a demand-dial link, not a permanently connected one? I haven't run NTP ovr a demand-dial link, but I have run it over a permanent link whose quality is usually abyssmal, but which has occasional periods of decent quality. If you configure a system with a local clock (127.127.1.something) and with two or three low-stratum servers at the far side of the dialup link, then I think you will find that xntp3 is able to synch with the remote servers while the link is up, and free-run from the local clock when the link is down. I guess that periods of up time shorter than about 15 minutes would probably not be enough to establish synchronisation, but longer periods should be fine. You would probably want to teach the dial-on-demand software that the presence of NTP packets is not a sufficient reason to initiate a dialup. --apb Alan Barrett, Dept. of Electronic Eng., Univ. of Natal, Durban, South Africa RFC822: barrett@ee.und.ac.za
Re: NTP in demand dialup network
Author: Alan Barrett
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 08:42
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 08:42
13 lines
1372 bytes
1372 bytes
In article <CLzutI.586@threel.co.uk>, iay@threel.co.uk (system PRIVILEGED account) writes: > Next, I tried running ntpdate in debug mode, which tells me what adjustment > it would like to make. I tried to apply this adjustment using "date -a" xntpdc will let you write to the frequency component of the loop filter, using the "fudge 127.127.1.whatever time1" command. One could easily hack the source to give xntpdc access to the offset component of the loop filter, but I don't know whether that would be a good idea. --apb Alan Barrett, Dept. of Electronic Eng., Univ. of Natal, Durban, South Africa RFC822: barrett@ee.und.ac.za
Re: NTP in demand dialup network
Author: Alexander Dupuy
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 19:25
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 19:25
17 lines
1769 bytes
1769 bytes
I posted a somewhat longish message a month or so ago about running NTP over demand-dialup IP. You can check the ppp-users archive at ftp.morningstar.com, or the NTP mailing list archive (is there one?). The brief summary is that you should use xntpdc, not ntpdate, synchronized with a few secondaries (if you can teach your demand dial software not to bring up the link just because there's an NTP packet which wants to go out). Set up a local clock "peer" at stratum 5 or 6, so that xntpdc will stay synchronized when the link is down. Link up times of only slightly more than 5 minutes appear to be sufficient to keep my IPX within 50 msec of our secondaries, once the drift rate is accurately calculated (this may take a day or two). @alex -- inet: dupuy@cs.columbia.edu Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
Thread Navigation
This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.
Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.
Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.
Back to All Threads