🚀 go-pugleaf

Mark,

I was in a similar situation...had Quark, but had not opened the box yet. A
new client wanted work done in Quark. So I bought a book by David Blatner,
and have never looked back. Okay, I actually look back to the book all the
time. There is a chapter in the book that is very helpful...something like
"Learn Quark in 30 minutes." Although there is much more to learn about the
program, this chapter was certainly quite helpful.

The QuarkXpress 4 Book
David Blatner
isbn 0201696959

Good luck,

Lynn



"Mark Gottlieb" <mark.gottlieb@renp.com> wrote in message
news:cb8fc0a5.0201240713.b6d24a6@posting.google.com...
> Where can someone with graphic design experience (e.g. Photoshop) find
> classes preferably in Central New Jersey or the NY Metro area to take
> classes to learn Quark quickly and easily?  Also, does anyone know any
> good books or other training materials for purchase or Quark training
> over the internet that can accomplish the same thing?
>
> Please respond at mark.gottlieb@renp.com

In article <cb8fc0a5.0201240713.b6d24a6@posting.google.com>,
 mark.gottlieb@renp.com (Mark Gottlieb) wrote:

> Where can someone with graphic design experience (e.g. Photoshop) find
> classes preferably in Central New Jersey or the NY Metro area to take
> classes to learn Quark quickly and easily?  Also, does anyone know any
> good books or other training materials for purchase or Quark training
> over the internet that can accomplish the same thing?

This blows my mind. I don't know which is worse. Clients so stupid and 
uncaring that they will entrust their project to someone who doesn't 
even know a standard piece of software, or "designers" with so much gall 
that they can go out and solicit jobs BEFORE they have an idea how they 
can do it. I mean how do you quote on a job if you don't know how long 
it will take?

Of course the other point is Quark is only a tool. Spending a bundle in 
the tool department of Sears does not make me a carpenter, getting quark 
does not make me a designer or layout artist or prepress operator. So 
yeah, you can learn the basics of quark in a few days. What about 
prudent use of white space? What about correct kerning? What about 
rivers? What about margin creep? What about color seps?


> Please respond at mark.gottlieb@renp.com

This is the part I love best. "I want my answer but I can't be bothered 
to come back and check your #*&^$# newsgroup. So drop the answer right 
into my lap. And bring a pizza and some beer while you're at it."

FU!

In article <cb8fc0a5.0201240713.b6d24a6@posting.google.com>, Mark 
Gottlieb <mark.gottlieb@renp.com> wrote
>Where can someone with graphic design experience (e.g. Photoshop) find
>classes preferably in Central New Jersey or the NY Metro area to take
>classes to learn Quark quickly and easily?

Get a job working for Lee Blevins. :-)

-- 
Del Tree

Mark Gottlieb wrote:

> Where can someone with graphic design experience (e.g. Photoshop) find
> classes preferably in Central New Jersey or the NY Metro area to take
> classes to learn Quark quickly and easily?  Also, does anyone know any
> good books or other training materials for purchase or Quark training
> over the internet that can accomplish the same thing?
>
> Please respond at mark.gottlieb@renp.com

Check with the local community colleges. They should have a course in the
basics on the program.

--
Don McCahill
Internet Graphic Design
Westervelt College
London, Canada

I operate a university called the school of hard knox.

I would be willing to waive tuition for service rendered.

The experience would be better than any class you'll take.



Mark Gottlieb <mark.gottlieb@renp.com> wrote:

> Where can someone with graphic design experience (e.g. Photoshop) find
> classes preferably in Central New Jersey or the NY Metro area to take
> classes to learn Quark quickly and easily?  Also, does anyone know any
> good books or other training materials for purchase or Quark training
> over the internet that can accomplish the same thing?
> 
> Please respond at mark.gottlieb@renp.com

> Check with the local community colleges. They should have a course in the
> basics on the program.

"The program" in this case would probably be Publisher 98.

Don McCahill wrote:

> Mark Gottlieb wrote:
>
> > Where can someone with graphic design experience (e.g. Photoshop) find
> > classes preferably in Central New Jersey or the NY Metro area to take
> > classes to learn Quark quickly and easily?  Also, does anyone know any
> > good books or other training materials for purchase or Quark training
> > over the internet that can accomplish the same thing?
> >
> > Please respond at mark.gottlieb@renp.com
>
> Check with the local community colleges. They should have a course in the
> basics on the program.
>
> --
> Don McCahill
> Internet Graphic Design
> Westervelt College
> London, Canada

Scott Sackett wrote:

> > Check with the local community colleges. They should have a course in the
> > basics on the program.
>
> "The program" in this case would probably be Publisher 98.

I hope not. The local community college here offers Quark courses, elementary
and advanced. (Not that anyone here would consider the advanced course to be
so, but it would be a good starting point for the poster.)

Do colleges in your area not explain what program they are teaching?

--
Don McCahill

Don McCahill <donmcc@rogers.com> wrote:

> I hope not. The local community college here offers Quark courses, elementary
> and advanced. (Not that anyone here would consider the advanced course to be
> so, but it would be a good starting point for the poster.)
> 
> Do colleges in your area not explain what program they are teaching?

Most Quark classes that I've seen are taught by designers and offer
little more than what you could get from the tutorial.

In article <1f6m18c.8qhf02t7cvwgN@ip68-9-106-192.ri.ri.cox.net>, Lee 
Blevins <leeb@digitalgraphics.net> wrote

>Most Quark classes that I've seen are taught by designers and offer
>little more than what you could get from the tutorial.

I have to agree with Lee. US mileage may vary, but in all the Quark 
courses I've had anything to do with over here, whether from so-called 
"Authorised Training Providers" or those taught by Colleges of Art and 
Design under various, ever-changing fancy names, the onus is firmly on 
learning the capabilities and features of the application and applying 
them to different publishing projects. This is no bad thing in itself 
but Quark is not an island unto itself. It is next to useless in _this_ 
industry without a knowledge of pre-press and print and these are the 
skills that such courses do _not_ teach, except in a very superficial 
and hap-hazard manner. i.e. Some explanation may be given about why 
image resolution and halftone screen resolution are dependent upon one 
another but no training is given in how to apply these principles in 
preparing pre-press files for output, nor on the very different 
requirements that need to be met for sheet and web offset litho, flexo, 
screen printing, photogravure, etc, etc.
Equally very little is generally taught about the differences between 
vector and raster artwork and the different ways in which it should be 
handled. Neither is there much said about the production issues that 
arise when spot and process colours are mixed in multi-colour work (i.e 
6 and 8 colour working), nor is Postscript or PDF discussed in anything 
like the detail needed to ensure the "graduate" is competent to begin 
his or her life in the wonderful world of pre-press and print!

In short, these courses teach very little that the intelligent and 
conscientious user could not learn from Quirk's own excellent manuals, 
which, in this age of ubiquitous PDF manuals, amount to a 3 inch thick 
tome that Quark Inc are to be heartily congratulated for continuing to 
produce.

Best,
-- 
Del Tree

Hi Mark,
Im learning Quark right now..I printed this great 300 page tutorial by
Quark Express from there website called QuarkEd. Its great!
Take care! Cara



mark.gottlieb@renp.com (Mark Gottlieb) wrote in message news:<cb8fc0a5.0201240713.b6d24a6@posting.google.com>...
> Where can someone with graphic design experience (e.g. Photoshop) find
> classes preferably in Central New Jersey or the NY Metro area to take
> classes to learn Quark quickly and easily?  Also, does anyone know any
> good books or other training materials for purchase or Quark training
> over the internet that can accomplish the same thing?
> 
> Please respond at mark.gottlieb@renp.com

In article <6c291e29.0201261253.64d272c9@posting.google.com>,
 carabraude@hotmail.com (Cara) wrote:

> Im learning Quark right now..I printed this great 300 page tutorial by
> Quark Express from there website called QuarkEd. Its great!

How many people do this? That is, print out something meant to be viewed 
on the screen? My boss prints out all his email. I think it makes him 
feel busy or important or something. Whatever happend to the paperless 
office? We are drowning in paper!

Shhhhh ... listen ...
"AGB" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:not-5ACBAD.18295726012002@news.bellglobal.com...
> In article <6c291e29.0201261253.64d272c9@posting.google.com>,
>  carabraude@hotmail.com (Cara) wrote:
>
> > Im learning Quark right now..I printed this great 300 page tutorial by
> > Quark Express from there website called QuarkEd. Its great!
>
> How many people do this? That is, print out something meant to be viewed
> on the screen? My boss prints out all his email. I think it makes him
> feel busy or important or something. Whatever happend to the paperless
> office? We are drowning in paper!

Is that a tree screaming?!?!?

I dunno - I don't print, I just save stuff to my hard drive. But for some
reason, some people believe that data stored on a hard drive can be lost if
the drive dies <g>. So they print it out. I just make backups.

Peggy

In article <LfH48.15075$RD5.37353@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, Peggy 
<pjcoquet@attbi.com> wrote

>Is that a tree screaming?!?!?

Yes!
Do you know, things have got so un-eco friendly here that I have to 
drive 20 miles to buy recycled bog paper. Now I ask you, why cut down 
perfectly good trees to wipe your botty on when you can use paper made 
from John Doherty's remaindered publications?

Is the whole world barking, or is it just me and you :-)

>I dunno - I don't print, I just save stuff to my hard drive.

Ditto. Together we'll save the planet yet!

Best,
--
Del Tree

AGB wrote:

> In article <6c291e29.0201261253.64d272c9@posting.google.com>,
>  carabraude@hotmail.com (Cara) wrote:
> 
>>Im learning Quark right now..I printed this great 300 page tutorial by
>>Quark Express from there website called QuarkEd. Its great!
>>
> How many people do this? That is, print out something meant to be viewed 
> on the screen? My boss prints out all his email. I think it makes him 
> feel busy or important or something. Whatever happend to the paperless 
> office? We are drowning in paper!

"The paperless ofice will arrive at about the same time as the
paperless toilet." (Beta Starchild, 1983)

///Peter

Mark Gottlieb wrote:

> Where can someone with graphic design experience (e.g. Photoshop) find
> classes preferably in Central New Jersey or the NY Metro area to take
> classes to learn Quark quickly and easily?  Also, does anyone know any
> good books or other training materials for purchase or Quark training
> over the internet that can accomplish the same thing?


"I want to learn quickly and easily to fly Concorde.
  I already know how to draw a picture of a plane.
  Does anyone know of a training course I can take
  or a book I can buy to do this?"


> Please respond at mark.gottlieb@renp.com


This is Usenet. You post here, you come back here to find if anyone has
replied. You wanna go by email, join a mailing list.

///Peter

In comp.text.tex Peter Flynn <peter@silmaril.ie> wrote:


: "I want to learn quickly and easily to fly Concorde.
:   I already know how to draw a picture of a plane.
:   Does anyone know of a training course I can take
:   or a book I can buy to do this?"


Learn to fly curves, or also learn to land? (makes a difference,
now and then).

Oliver.

-- 
Dr. Oliver Corff              e-mail:    corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de

AGB <not@home.com> wrote:

> In article <6c291e29.0201261253.64d272c9@posting.google.com>,
>  carabraude@hotmail.com (Cara) wrote:
> 
> > Im learning Quark right now..I printed this great 300 page tutorial by
> > Quark Express from there website called QuarkEd. Its great!

> How many people do this? That is, print out something meant to be viewed
> on the screen? My boss prints out all his email. I think it makes him
> feel busy or important or something. Whatever happend to the paperless
> office? We are drowning in paper!

Printing out all your email is ridiculous.  Printing out tutorials or
manuals is not.  I do it fairly often.  It's much easier to learn
something when you can have the book and your actual work open and out
at the same time.  Flipping back and forth between Acrobat or some other
document reader and whatever program you're trying to use/learn is a big
PITA.  

I only find it makes sense if I basically know the program and just need
a quick lookup.  It's not too bad for some things if you've got two
monitors or a big enough screen.  But for learning a graphical app like
Xpress, it's nice to have the whole screen just for the app, no matter
how big it is.

Printed references are also a lot easier to scan for things if you can't
come up with good search terms because your vocabulary and the manual
writer's don't agree.

Trying to skim through a 400 page PDF file for something takes forever
compared to doing the same thing with a printed manual.

Having purely electronic manuals and tutorials will make sense to me on
the day that electronic browsing is as fast and easy as flipping through
a book, and when the average user has a 29" screen with 4 megapixel
video.  Ain't happenin' yet.  


Michael

-- 
Michael Sullivan
Business Card Express of CT             Thermographers to the Trade
Cheshire, CT                                      michael@bcect.com

On Jan 28, 2002 Michael Sullivan <michael@bcect.com> wrote
   in <1f6pt7k.1jfr7yt1v4sxtsN%michael@bcect.com>:

> AGB <not@home.com> wrote:

> > Whatever happend to the paperless office?

It turned out to be as useful as the paperless toilet.

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                     http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
 Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice
 I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings.

Oliver Corff <corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes:

> In comp.text.tex Peter Flynn <peter@silmaril.ie> wrote:
> 
> 
> : "I want to learn quickly and easily to fly Concorde.
> :   I already know how to draw a picture of a plane.
> :   Does anyone know of a training course I can take
> :   or a book I can buy to do this?"
> 
> 
> Learn to fly curves, or also learn to land? (makes a difference,
> now and then).

And if you take flying lessons to learn how to navigate and
control a big plane, but skip the lessons on take-off and 
landing, then you will be visited by some very serious people.


Donald Arseneau                          asnd@triumf.ca

In article <1f6pt7k.1jfr7yt1v4sxtsN%michael@bcect.com>,
 michael@bcect.com (Michael Sullivan) wrote:

> Having purely electronic manuals and tutorials will make sense to me on
> the day that electronic browsing is as fast and easy as flipping through
> a book, and when the average user has a 29" screen with 4 megapixel
> video.  Ain't happenin' yet.  

Printing out a manual will make sense to me when I can invoke a Find 
command and the manual opens to the right page with the word highlighted.

In article 
<Pine.LNX.4.44.0201281519420.3148-100000@lehel.goldmark.private>,
 Jeffrey Goldberg <{$news}$@goldmark.org> wrote:

> On Jan 28, 2002 Michael Sullivan <michael@bcect.com> wrote
>    in <1f6pt7k.1jfr7yt1v4sxtsN%michael@bcect.com>:
> 
> > AGB <not@home.com> wrote:
> 
> > > Whatever happend to the paperless office?
> 
> It turned out to be as useful as the paperless toilet.

Some places in the world they prefer water. 
Maybe they know something you don't.

The problem with clever lines is that you sacrifice the moral high 
ground for a quick chuckle. 

I know a lot of us would be jobless if paper usage went down 30% but in 
my neck of the woods this winter has been 5 degrees warmer than average. 
A job ain't gonna save my bacon when the whole city is under water due 
to global warming.

In article <yfi3d0pq5ny.fsf@triumf.ca>, Donald Arseneau <asnd@triumf.ca> 
wrote
>And if you take flying lessons to learn how to navigate and
>control a big plane, but skip the lessons on take-off and
>landing, then you will be visited by some very serious people.

ROTFLMAO <G>

-- 
Del Tree

AGB <not@home.com> wrote:

> In article <1f6pt7k.1jfr7yt1v4sxtsN%michael@bcect.com>,
>  michael@bcect.com (Michael Sullivan) wrote:
> 
> > Having purely electronic manuals and tutorials will make sense to me on
> > the day that electronic browsing is as fast and easy as flipping through
> > a book, and when the average user has a 29" screen with 4 megapixel
> > video.  Ain't happenin' yet.  

> Printing out a manual will make sense to me when I can invoke a Find 
> command and the manual opens to the right page with the word highlighted.

For software that I know well and whose manual I've already read much of
and only need occasionally as a reference, that works very well, and
much faster than using a printed manual.  Sometimes a new program will
work that way too, generally if it's tackling the same problem and
industry as another that I know very well.  Like learning InDesign
having used Xpress for years.

At the other end of the learning spectrum, when I don't yet understand
the vocabulary of the program and the manual writers, finding relevant
information with text searches is like searching for a needle in a
haystack in a dark barn while wearing a blindfold and heavy gloves. 

What was that about using the appropriate tool for the job?  

This is not even to discuss those online only manuals in proprietary
formats that have limited, lousy or no search and index functions.


Michael

-- 
Michael Sullivan
Business Card Express of CT             Thermographers to the Trade
Cheshire, CT                                      michael@bcect.com

AGB wrote:
> > > > Whatever happend to the paperless office?
> > 
> > It turned out to be as useful as the paperless toilet.
> 
> Some places in the world they prefer water. 
> Maybe they know something you don't.

For example that water closet with bidets also have toilet paper?

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Axiom I of the Giuseppe Bilotta
theory of IT:
Anything is better than MS

AGB wrote:
> In article <1f6pt7k.1jfr7yt1v4sxtsN%michael@bcect.com>,
>  michael@bcect.com (Michael Sullivan) wrote:
> 
> > Having purely electronic manuals and tutorials will make sense to me on
> > the day that electronic browsing is as fast and easy as flipping through
> > a book, and when the average user has a 29" screen with 4 megapixel
> > video.  Ain't happenin' yet.  
> 
> Printing out a manual will make sense to me when I can invoke a Find 
> command and the manual opens to the right page with the word highlighted.
> 

Isn't a very good index enough?

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Axiom I of the Giuseppe Bilotta
theory of IT:
Anything is better than MS