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Article #848

Re: 6 DOF Joysticks

#848
From: Marvin Minsky
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 1990 18:29
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In article <GERRY.90Dec7094126@onion.frc.ri.cmu.edu> gerry@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:
>In article <1990Dec6.232210.2638@sctc.com> smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith) writes:
>   Ideally, you want the kinematics of the joystick (well, hand controller) to
>   match that of the robot. 

> ... tests done at JPL and elsewhere
>have shown that to perform meaningful tasks, force reflection is
>required and that time delay from your sensors (cameras, force
>sensors, etc) will seriously degrade performance.

Terms like "seriously degraded" seriously degrade our appreciation of
some problems.  I mention this because I'm convninced that earth-based
remote control of, for example, a space station, would yiled a huge
advantage in performance/cost payoff.  So the question is, what did
"tests done at JPL and elsewhere" really demonstrate?  

Consider that the internal sensor-brain-muscle roudtrip time of a
human is of the order of 1/5 second -- so that when your brain tries
to do anythig in the outer world, you have a delay time of this order.
Now, suppose that the sensory-motor loop time of a remote control
system were, say, 1 second.  Then you could expect the human
performance time to increase six-fold, so that it would be "degraded"
by that much.  My question: has JPL or anyone else shown that
delays cause substantially more degradation than this?
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Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!mit-eddie!media-lab!minsky
References: <18232@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1990Dec6.232210.2638@sctc.com> <GERRY.90Dec7094126@onion.frc.ri.cmu.edu>

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Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!mit-eddie!media-lab!minsky
From: minsky@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Marvin Minsky)
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
Subject: Re: 6 DOF Joysticks
Message-ID: <4282@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>
Date: 7 Dec 90 18:29:23 GMT
References: <18232@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1990Dec6.232210.2638@sctc.com> <GERRY.90Dec7094126@onion.frc.ri.cmu.edu>
Reply-To: minsky@media-lab.media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky)
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Organization: MIT Media Lab, Cambridge MA
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