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	Greetings and Salutations..

"Keith Paxton" <neodoesntw@ntspamknac.com> wrote:

>John Navas <spamfilter@navasgrp.dublin.ca.us> wrote in message
>news:IXRl6.3973
>> In <kYIl6.60587$_D.11160931@typhoon.we.rr.com>, "Keith Paxton"
>> <neodoesntw@ntspamknac.com> wrote:
>
>> >Just like more and more gun laws aren't going to keep the
>> >gang-banger in the neighborhood from poppin' a cap in
>> >your ass when you look at him the wrong way.
>>
>> The why does the USA have one of the highest violent crime rates in the
>> developed world to go along with the highest rate of private ownership
>> of lethal weapons?

	Hum..I would question this statement, not because I think there
are that small a number of guns in the USA, but, because I think it
shows more of the preconceptions of the speaker than of reality.  Let
us look at Israel and Switzerland...where pretty much EVERY household
not only has a fully automatic weapon in it, but, the folks are
required to use it regularly.  As I recall, with all the problems
reported in the world, the issues of home attack and burglary are
fairly low on the list in those countries.
	America's "violent society" is, in many cases, a media lie pushed
because it is attention grabbing and makes money for the broadcast and
print media, not because it is "truth".  America is a very big place
and, since it is such a chaotic place, there is a lot of social
stress.  This means that there are, in every city, pockets where one's
personal safety is NOTICABLEY lower than in other places.  However,
this is true, perhaps on a smaller scale, in EVERY large city or
fairly densely populated area in the world.
	While there are some amazing examples of "man's inhumanity to man"
that come out of America, they are mostly, isolated instances.  As a
matter of fact, although I don't have the numbers right at my
fingertips (and as I write this, the DSL line is down AGAIN so I
cannot check it)  poking about the FBI's crime statistics logs will
show that, overall, crime in America is dropping - Which to me, means
that our lives are getting "safer" rather than more dangerous.
	I will, though, freely admit that there are trends in American
socity that disturb me.  There IS an increase in the Level of violence
happening at various levels of our society.  When I was coming up
through High School, the drug dealers would break your leg with an
iron pipe if you stiffed them on a deal.  Now, they are quite likely
to shoot or stab a person to death.  Many of the young criminals
coming into the system are more "soulless" than they used to be...and
so are harder to get back on the path to being productive citizens
that can live within society.  The problem with this is that the
judicial system, pushed by the politicians, is moving to "automatic
sentencing", removing the disgression of the judge to lessen a
punishment.  THis often means that a person that MIGHT be
rehabilitated is punished so harshly that the punishment far
out-weighs the crime...leaving them embittered and pushed even further
away from society.
	There are no easy answers to these problems, but, good parenting,
teaching one's children strong values, and tempering "Justice" with
"Mercy" are good steps towards dealing with the disenfranchised from
society.

>
>I just can't let this go, without pointing out: You do realize, don't you,
>that your above response (if it were true) actually *proves* the statement I
>made that you were responding to? More and more gun laws, no actual change
>in the illegal use of guns. Gun laws don't stop Joe Gangbanger from
>illegally obtaining and using a gun; they stop Jon Q Goodcitizen from being
>able to buy a particular type of gun, in a certain time frame.
>
>What you say there is the same as "The USA has the highest rate of Computer
>Crime to go along with the highest rate of Private Computer Ownership."
>Again, according to my servers' logs - not true. BTW, since Australia almost
>completely outlawed guns two (three?) years ago, the "hot burglary" rate has
>gone up five-fold. Why not break  into a house when the family is home? It's
>not like they're going to have a gun to protect themselves.
>--

	Good points.   The fact of the matter is that while there are
thousands of guns used in violent crimes in America every year, it is
documented by the FBI that there are thousands that are used to thwart
violent crimes, as well as millions that are never involved in any
illegal activity at all.   Is it right, or good, that we restrict the
freedoms of the many because of the abuses of a tiny minority?
Another hard question that...  I still maintain that guns are not the
problem...It is the misuse of guns that IS the problem.  Today America
has tens of thousands of gun laws on the books, but, they are not
enforced...so are meaningless...until they are used as a weapon
against someone to pile on MORE charges to make the prosecution look
better.
	Speaking of which, it is a good point, earlier, that the poster
spoke of "the ownership of lethal weapons" rather than just guns.  I,
for example, have several bows and a decent collection of arrows - and
frankly, I can kill someone JUST as dead with those as I could with a
gun.  Of course, it would take a bit more skill, but, then, I have
that too...as do millions of other Americans.


>Loren
>"I'm Libertarian. That means the Republicans
>annoy me slightly less than the Democrats"
>-Larry Elder - Nov. 2000
>
>
><snipped for brevity>
>
>
	Sorry about the brevity thing....I have problems with that, as you
can tell.
	In closing, I want to state that the Founding Fathers of the
American Republic made the right to bear arms as the second most
important thing in our basic rules of existence not because they were
afraid that folks would break into each other's homes and perpetuate
crimes on each other.  It was because they knew, from VERY recent
example (having just managed to wrestle the Colonies away from the
draconian rule of the British) that govenment was a dangerous servant.

It could do great things for the people...but, it was always on the
verge of turning those same people into slaves.  It is only the right
of the individual citizens to keep and bear arms that makes it
impossible for government to enslave its citizens.  We may "poo-poo"
this today, but the cold fact is that every government gets into the
habit of weaving an ever-tightening net of restrictions around its
citizens, usually with the excuse of "making it safer for them to live
in the country" or "to protect and serve them".  A certain level of
government is necessary, and I have no problem with this.  However,
the fact of the matter is that in many cases, "governmental
protection" in the form of police or fire may well come far too late
to keep the disaster from turning from a small one to a great one.  It
is each citizen's responsibility for their own safety in the short
term.  Without tools to do this, we become lambs marked for slaughter.
	Regards
	Dave Mundt


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