🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

Thread View: comp.society.development
9 messages
9 total messages Started by harmo Mon, 03 Jun 1991 12:15
usenet in Nepal
#70
Author: harmo
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1991 12:15
63 lines
3614 bytes
I have some visitors from Nepal Telephone Company (NTC) and I've been 
talking to them about computer-mediated communication systems, 
mainly usenet. 

I feel that Usenet could be a great tool for development. It could
help NTC and other local companies and byreacracies greatly in their
own computerization (I am taking for granted here that
computerazation can be a good thing for developing countries, of
course that is much open for discussion). It is quite  difficult to
find a broad range of expertize in Kathmandu, not  to speak of other
parts of Nepal).  

Nepal is also full of  foreign experts. Telefax
has helped communications very much,  e-mail and usenet would be
another big step in making the work  of experts more efficient.
Maybe some experts could even be  replaced by expertice offered thru
the networks.

I understand that the universities in Kathmandu are so poorly
computerized that it would be quite difficult to get much
educational benefits from the usenet connections (maybe participants
in soc.culture.nepal will respond to this).

Maybe the + & - of computer-mediated communications would be a
fruitful topic in the new comp.society.development-group?

Then some technical and organizational questions to netters in
news.misc.
I've been claiming that:
 -They could get the necessary hardware and software for about 
5000-10000$ (386+unix+uucp+nn+9600mnp or trailblazer or...?)
 -They could maintain the system locally (there is at least one 
unix-dealer in Kathmandu, and NTC has qualified computer 
personel, though no unix-experience so far). With Nepali 
bureaucratic system it would maybe mean assigning one or two 
foreign-trainded engineers to maintain the system and using the 
local company for support and training. Alternatively, they 
might get some international funding.
 -They could try to find a newsfeed in London (all international 
calls go thru London anyway, lines to neigboring 
countries are too bad). About half-hours connection daily would 
keep them well up-to-date on most important newsgroups and on 
e-mail. How do you go about finding a feed?
 -Many international organizations would be very happy to get 
these connections. NTC could serve as a feed to them. Internal 
telephone connections are very good in Nepal, so that would be 
no problem.

Any mistakes here? Am I perhaps underestimating the work in 
maintaining a usenet-node?

What worries me most is how does this fit in usenet and uucp 
policies? NTC is a state-owned business. They must make some 
profit thru the system or it must help run their other 
businesses more efficiently.  As I understand, that would be 
quite un-usenethical. Does the fact that this would take place in
one of the poorest developing coutries change anything?

Will they be able to charge the sites that they will be  feeding
(apart from the telepone-bills)? Should they rather look for some
commercial systems?  Should a possible usenet- and uucp -connection 
be established by some other organization (UN?) that could  put up
the system and serve as a feed to others? 
Re: usenet in Nepal
#73
Author: Ed Vielmetti
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1991 19:38
31 lines
2150 bytes
In article <1991Jun3.141524.1@cc.helsinki.fi> harmo@cc.helsinki.fi writes:

   What worries me most is how does this fit in usenet and uucp 
   policies? NTC is a state-owned business. They must make some 
   profit thru the system or it must help run their other 
   businesses more efficiently.  As I understand, that would be 
   quite un-usenethical. Does the fact that this would take place in
   one of the poorest developing coutries change anything?

Profits are generally seen as an OK byproduct of usenet as long as
that's not the only purpose of connections; there are several firms in
the USA (UUNET, PSI) which sell uucp connections for a fee and they're
generally agreed to be a good thing.  This stuff costs money to do, no
question about that.

There's a general sense that monopolistic communications practices are
bad, that is to say EUNET's past practices of discrimination against
independent networking in Europe were roundly thrashed out on
news.admin, and they eventually relented and allowed other networking
organizations to hook up without penalty.  It would be interesting to
determine whether the situation in Nepal is such that any sort of
competition for networking services is even possible, or whether the
country is in such a state that only state-owned business can afford
the bills.  

netnews also has the effect of exporting revolutions (e.g.
soc.culture.china had an impact on the student revolution).  will
soc.culture.nepal be seen as a threat, will there be restrictions on
political speech?  i dunno what the real answer is there.

--Ed
Re: usenet in Nepal
#78
Author: harmo
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1991 15:09
15 lines
1239 bytes
I wrote:
>  -Many international organizations would be very happy to get 
> these connections. NTC could serve as a feed to them. Internal 
> telephone connections are very good in Nepal, so that would be 
> no problem.
> 
> Any mistakes here? 

Upon further reflection I came upon quite a bad mistake in the scheme.
I believe that there are very few unix-machines (not to speak of mainframes 
that could run newsreader) in Nepal, so there probably would not be much
demand, unless NTC set up a modem-based newsreading service. That would require
quite a lot more than a simple feeding system (many incoming modems,
complicated billing, customer support, ....... a new computer culture, in a
word). Is there really no newsreaders for ms-dos -machines?
Re: usenet in Nepal
#79
Author: Harri Valkama
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 06:52
10 lines
997 bytes
In article <1991Jun4.170923.1@cc.helsinki.fi> harmo@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>word). Is there really no newsreaders for ms-dos -machines?

Of course there are. Both for DOS and Windows3.

-- 
== Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ============================
 P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465)
 Anon ftp garbo.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.37) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100)
 hv@uwasa.fi hv@finfiles.bitnet /s=hv/o=uwasa/prdm=inet/amdm=fumail/c=fi
Low-cost Usenet (Re: usenet in Nepal)
#80
Author: Doug Sewell
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 12:58
35 lines
2418 bytes
In article <1991Jun4.170923.1@cc.helsinki.fi>, harmo@cc.helsinki.fi says:
>
>Upon further reflection I came upon quite a bad mistake in the scheme.
>I believe that there are very few unix-machines (not to speak of mainframes
>that could run newsreader) in Nepal, so there probably would not be much
>demand, unless NTC set up a modem-based newsreading service. That would
>require
>quite a lot more than a simple feeding system (many incoming modems,
>complicated billing, customer support, ....... a new computer culture, in a
>word). Is there really no newsreaders for ms-dos -machines?

If you have a 8088 MSDOS machine with 640K and an adequate hard disk,
you can run Waffle to read e-mail and Usenet news.  Waffle talks UUCP
to Unix, and other Waffle systems as well.

Waffle can be used for local news-reading or as a dial-in BBS system.
It's limited to one user at a time, although I've heard rumors of run-
ning two waffle sessions under Desqview.  Each user has their own
signon.  DOS Waffle is shareware - $35/copy registration - source
is available.

There's also a Unix version of Waffle.  By making Waffle the login
shell, users have the same interface for news and mail reading as DOS
Waffle.  Multiple users are supported, and the host system's facilities
are used for uucp, news and mail transport.  Some public-access Unix
systems use Waffle now.  This is a commercial product, provided in
source, and quite reasonable (about $120 or so).

Coming back to the original point, these are some inexpensive, easy
to use (from user's point of view, not necessarily the sysop's) ways
to make news and e-mail access more widely available.  soc.culture.nepal
dropped in followups to this article, since we're getting far afield.
For more information about either waffle, see alt.bbs.waffle.

Doug
Re: Low-cost Usenet (Re: usenet in Nepal)
#82
Author: Mohamed Elkordy
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 17:58
18 lines
1228 bytes
DOUG@ysub.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell) writes:




>If you have a 8088 MSDOS machine with 640K and an adequate hard disk,
>you can run Waffle to read e-mail and Usenet news.  Waffle talks UUCP
>to Unix, and other Waffle systems as well.

   Sorry, but I think I do not understand what is going on !
 Is this "Waffle" a hardware or just software, and if it is only software
 you will definitly need modem ? and if u use modem what is the telephone
 number that you are going to dial from Nipal (or in my case, Egypt). It
 is not an 800 #, is it?

   thanks for your anticipated explaination.

  elkordy@acsu.buffalo.edu
Re: Low-cost Usenet (Re: usenet in Nepal)
#83
Author: Doug Sewell
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 20:56
24 lines
1673 bytes
In article <78978@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, elkordy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mohamed
Elkordy) says:
>
>   Sorry, but I think I do not understand what is going on !
> Is this "Waffle" a hardware or just software, and if it is only software
> you will definitly need modem ? and if u use modem what is the telephone
> number that you are going to dial from Nipal (or in my case, Egypt). It
> is not an 800 #, is it?
>

Waffle is a software-only program.  Yes, you need a modem, that's how
you connect to another site by UUCP.

I can't answer where you would hook your site to - in Egypt, there may
be a university that has usenet access.  In Nepal, it was suggested that
since the internal phone connections are good, you would need an infor-
mation/connection vendor - perhaps the phone company, or a UUNET-like
organization.  They would have to decide on billing arrangements.

Doug
--
Doug Sewell, Tech Support, Computer Center,         doug@ysub.bitnet
Youngstown State University, Youngstown,  OH 44555  doug@ysub.ysu.edu
There's smoke in the computer room! Get the gasoline!
Re: usenet in Nepal
#91
Author: Anon
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1991 10:40
13 lines
1268 bytes
In article <1991Jun5.065259.27110@uwasa.fi>, hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) writes:
> In article <1991Jun4.170923.1@cc.helsinki.fi> harmo@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
> >word). Is there really no newsreaders for ms-dos -machines?
> 
> Of course there are. Both for DOS and Windows3.
> 
> -- 
> == Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ============================
>  P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465)
>  Anon ftp garbo.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.37) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100)
>  hv@uwasa.fi hv@finfiles.bitnet /s=hv/o=uwasa/prdm=inet/amdm=fumail/c=fi

ould  you please send me e-mail or post some info about a few?? I have herd of waffle but n H no address gro  is given fro th e compant which produces it!
Re: Low-cost Usenet (Re: usenet in Nepal)
#105
Author: herrickd
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1991 15:08
55 lines
2852 bytes
In article <78978@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, elkordy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mohamed Elkordy) writes:
> DOUG@ysub.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>If you have a 8088 MSDOS machine with 640K and an adequate hard disk,
>>you can run Waffle to read e-mail and Usenet news.  Waffle talks UUCP
>>to Unix, and other Waffle systems as well.
> 
>    Sorry, but I think I do not understand what is going on !
>  Is this "Waffle" a hardware or just software, and if it is only software
>  you will definitly need modem ? and if u use modem what is the telephone
>  number that you are going to dial from Nipal (or in my case, Egypt). It
>  is not an 800 #, is it?
> 
Waffle is software.  To get a news system running with DOS Waffle,
you need

      1)  a MSDOS computer with 640K and hard disk
      2)  Waffle
      3)  a modem
      4)  a feed - this is another news site that you can call on
          the phone to get news from and feed your local postings
          back to.
      5)  a copy of the Nutshell book about uucp

Item 1 can be satisfied by an IBM XT or clone, 8088 with 20MBytes of
disk.  You will always want more disk.

Item 2 can be picked up on the network.

Item 3 should be at least 2400 baud.  You should probably talk to the
system administrator of your feed site before buying it.  Speeds higher
than 2400 have compatibility problems - you want to be able to use
all the speed you pay for.

Item 4 can be found here.  You describe your location and ask for
willing neighbors to let you know.  For the first USENET site in
Nepal, they are going to be a long distance phone call away.  You
might find a local feed in some places in Egypt.  Either way,
somebody is paying for long distance phone calls and it is good
citizenship to help pay.

Item 5 will help, but is still not enough.  The documentation is all
written in a strange dialect of English, including the Nutshell book.
You will need a great deal of patience and determination and the help
of the system administrator at your feed site and, probably, also help
from people here on USENET.

This only begins to point the way.  Keep asking questions.  Ask for
help understanding the things above that don't make sense to you.

dan herrick
herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Thread Navigation

This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.

Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.

Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.

Back to All Threads