Thread View: comp.society.development
9 messages
9 total messages
Started by harmo
Mon, 03 Jun 1991 12:15
usenet in Nepal
Author: harmo
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1991 12:15
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1991 12:15
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I have some visitors from Nepal Telephone Company (NTC) and I've been talking to them about computer-mediated communication systems, mainly usenet. I feel that Usenet could be a great tool for development. It could help NTC and other local companies and byreacracies greatly in their own computerization (I am taking for granted here that computerazation can be a good thing for developing countries, of course that is much open for discussion). It is quite difficult to find a broad range of expertize in Kathmandu, not to speak of other parts of Nepal). Nepal is also full of foreign experts. Telefax has helped communications very much, e-mail and usenet would be another big step in making the work of experts more efficient. Maybe some experts could even be replaced by expertice offered thru the networks. I understand that the universities in Kathmandu are so poorly computerized that it would be quite difficult to get much educational benefits from the usenet connections (maybe participants in soc.culture.nepal will respond to this). Maybe the + & - of computer-mediated communications would be a fruitful topic in the new comp.society.development-group? Then some technical and organizational questions to netters in news.misc. I've been claiming that: -They could get the necessary hardware and software for about 5000-10000$ (386+unix+uucp+nn+9600mnp or trailblazer or...?) -They could maintain the system locally (there is at least one unix-dealer in Kathmandu, and NTC has qualified computer personel, though no unix-experience so far). With Nepali bureaucratic system it would maybe mean assigning one or two foreign-trainded engineers to maintain the system and using the local company for support and training. Alternatively, they might get some international funding. -They could try to find a newsfeed in London (all international calls go thru London anyway, lines to neigboring countries are too bad). About half-hours connection daily would keep them well up-to-date on most important newsgroups and on e-mail. How do you go about finding a feed? -Many international organizations would be very happy to get these connections. NTC could serve as a feed to them. Internal telephone connections are very good in Nepal, so that would be no problem. Any mistakes here? Am I perhaps underestimating the work in maintaining a usenet-node? What worries me most is how does this fit in usenet and uucp policies? NTC is a state-owned business. They must make some profit thru the system or it must help run their other businesses more efficiently. As I understand, that would be quite un-usenethical. Does the fact that this would take place in one of the poorest developing coutries change anything? Will they be able to charge the sites that they will be feeding (apart from the telepone-bills)? Should they rather look for some commercial systems? Should a possible usenet- and uucp -connection be established by some other organization (UN?) that could put up the system and serve as a feed to others?
Re: usenet in Nepal
Author: Ed Vielmetti
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1991 19:38
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1991 19:38
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In article <1991Jun3.141524.1@cc.helsinki.fi> harmo@cc.helsinki.fi writes: What worries me most is how does this fit in usenet and uucp policies? NTC is a state-owned business. They must make some profit thru the system or it must help run their other businesses more efficiently. As I understand, that would be quite un-usenethical. Does the fact that this would take place in one of the poorest developing coutries change anything? Profits are generally seen as an OK byproduct of usenet as long as that's not the only purpose of connections; there are several firms in the USA (UUNET, PSI) which sell uucp connections for a fee and they're generally agreed to be a good thing. This stuff costs money to do, no question about that. There's a general sense that monopolistic communications practices are bad, that is to say EUNET's past practices of discrimination against independent networking in Europe were roundly thrashed out on news.admin, and they eventually relented and allowed other networking organizations to hook up without penalty. It would be interesting to determine whether the situation in Nepal is such that any sort of competition for networking services is even possible, or whether the country is in such a state that only state-owned business can afford the bills. netnews also has the effect of exporting revolutions (e.g. soc.culture.china had an impact on the student revolution). will soc.culture.nepal be seen as a threat, will there be restrictions on political speech? i dunno what the real answer is there. --Ed
Re: usenet in Nepal
Author: harmo
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1991 15:09
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1991 15:09
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I wrote: > -Many international organizations would be very happy to get > these connections. NTC could serve as a feed to them. Internal > telephone connections are very good in Nepal, so that would be > no problem. > > Any mistakes here? Upon further reflection I came upon quite a bad mistake in the scheme. I believe that there are very few unix-machines (not to speak of mainframes that could run newsreader) in Nepal, so there probably would not be much demand, unless NTC set up a modem-based newsreading service. That would require quite a lot more than a simple feeding system (many incoming modems, complicated billing, customer support, ....... a new computer culture, in a word). Is there really no newsreaders for ms-dos -machines?
Re: usenet in Nepal
Author: Harri Valkama
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 06:52
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 06:52
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In article <1991Jun4.170923.1@cc.helsinki.fi> harmo@cc.helsinki.fi writes: >word). Is there really no newsreaders for ms-dos -machines? Of course there are. Both for DOS and Windows3. -- == Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ============================ P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465) Anon ftp garbo.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.37) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100) hv@uwasa.fi hv@finfiles.bitnet /s=hv/o=uwasa/prdm=inet/amdm=fumail/c=fi
Low-cost Usenet (Re: usenet in Nepal)
Author: Doug Sewell
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 12:58
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 12:58
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In article <1991Jun4.170923.1@cc.helsinki.fi>, harmo@cc.helsinki.fi says: > >Upon further reflection I came upon quite a bad mistake in the scheme. >I believe that there are very few unix-machines (not to speak of mainframes >that could run newsreader) in Nepal, so there probably would not be much >demand, unless NTC set up a modem-based newsreading service. That would >require >quite a lot more than a simple feeding system (many incoming modems, >complicated billing, customer support, ....... a new computer culture, in a >word). Is there really no newsreaders for ms-dos -machines? If you have a 8088 MSDOS machine with 640K and an adequate hard disk, you can run Waffle to read e-mail and Usenet news. Waffle talks UUCP to Unix, and other Waffle systems as well. Waffle can be used for local news-reading or as a dial-in BBS system. It's limited to one user at a time, although I've heard rumors of run- ning two waffle sessions under Desqview. Each user has their own signon. DOS Waffle is shareware - $35/copy registration - source is available. There's also a Unix version of Waffle. By making Waffle the login shell, users have the same interface for news and mail reading as DOS Waffle. Multiple users are supported, and the host system's facilities are used for uucp, news and mail transport. Some public-access Unix systems use Waffle now. This is a commercial product, provided in source, and quite reasonable (about $120 or so). Coming back to the original point, these are some inexpensive, easy to use (from user's point of view, not necessarily the sysop's) ways to make news and e-mail access more widely available. soc.culture.nepal dropped in followups to this article, since we're getting far afield. For more information about either waffle, see alt.bbs.waffle. Doug
Re: Low-cost Usenet (Re: usenet in Nepal)
Author: Mohamed Elkordy
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 17:58
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 17:58
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DOUG@ysub.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell) writes: >If you have a 8088 MSDOS machine with 640K and an adequate hard disk, >you can run Waffle to read e-mail and Usenet news. Waffle talks UUCP >to Unix, and other Waffle systems as well. Sorry, but I think I do not understand what is going on ! Is this "Waffle" a hardware or just software, and if it is only software you will definitly need modem ? and if u use modem what is the telephone number that you are going to dial from Nipal (or in my case, Egypt). It is not an 800 #, is it? thanks for your anticipated explaination. elkordy@acsu.buffalo.edu
Re: Low-cost Usenet (Re: usenet in Nepal)
Author: Doug Sewell
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 20:56
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1991 20:56
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In article <78978@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, elkordy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mohamed Elkordy) says: > > Sorry, but I think I do not understand what is going on ! > Is this "Waffle" a hardware or just software, and if it is only software > you will definitly need modem ? and if u use modem what is the telephone > number that you are going to dial from Nipal (or in my case, Egypt). It > is not an 800 #, is it? > Waffle is a software-only program. Yes, you need a modem, that's how you connect to another site by UUCP. I can't answer where you would hook your site to - in Egypt, there may be a university that has usenet access. In Nepal, it was suggested that since the internal phone connections are good, you would need an infor- mation/connection vendor - perhaps the phone company, or a UUNET-like organization. They would have to decide on billing arrangements. Doug -- Doug Sewell, Tech Support, Computer Center, doug@ysub.bitnet Youngstown State University, Youngstown, OH 44555 doug@ysub.ysu.edu There's smoke in the computer room! Get the gasoline!
Re: usenet in Nepal
Author: Anon
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1991 10:40
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1991 10:40
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In article <1991Jun5.065259.27110@uwasa.fi>, hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) writes: > In article <1991Jun4.170923.1@cc.helsinki.fi> harmo@cc.helsinki.fi writes: > >word). Is there really no newsreaders for ms-dos -machines? > > Of course there are. Both for DOS and Windows3. > > -- > == Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ============================ > P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465) > Anon ftp garbo.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.37) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100) > hv@uwasa.fi hv@finfiles.bitnet /s=hv/o=uwasa/prdm=inet/amdm=fumail/c=fi ould you please send me e-mail or post some info about a few?? I have herd of waffle but n H no address gro is given fro th e compant which produces it!
Re: Low-cost Usenet (Re: usenet in Nepal)
Author: herrickd
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1991 15:08
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1991 15:08
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In article <78978@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, elkordy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mohamed Elkordy) writes:
> DOUG@ysub.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell) writes:
>
>
>
>
>>If you have a 8088 MSDOS machine with 640K and an adequate hard disk,
>>you can run Waffle to read e-mail and Usenet news. Waffle talks UUCP
>>to Unix, and other Waffle systems as well.
>
> Sorry, but I think I do not understand what is going on !
> Is this "Waffle" a hardware or just software, and if it is only software
> you will definitly need modem ? and if u use modem what is the telephone
> number that you are going to dial from Nipal (or in my case, Egypt). It
> is not an 800 #, is it?
>
Waffle is software. To get a news system running with DOS Waffle,
you need
1) a MSDOS computer with 640K and hard disk
2) Waffle
3) a modem
4) a feed - this is another news site that you can call on
the phone to get news from and feed your local postings
back to.
5) a copy of the Nutshell book about uucp
Item 1 can be satisfied by an IBM XT or clone, 8088 with 20MBytes of
disk. You will always want more disk.
Item 2 can be picked up on the network.
Item 3 should be at least 2400 baud. You should probably talk to the
system administrator of your feed site before buying it. Speeds higher
than 2400 have compatibility problems - you want to be able to use
all the speed you pay for.
Item 4 can be found here. You describe your location and ask for
willing neighbors to let you know. For the first USENET site in
Nepal, they are going to be a long distance phone call away. You
might find a local feed in some places in Egypt. Either way,
somebody is paying for long distance phone calls and it is good
citizenship to help pay.
Item 5 will help, but is still not enough. The documentation is all
written in a strange dialect of English, including the Nutshell book.
You will need a great deal of patience and determination and the help
of the system administrator at your feed site and, probably, also help
from people here on USENET.
This only begins to point the way. Keep asking questions. Ask for
help understanding the things above that don't make sense to you.
dan herrick
herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
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