🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <na.72f0564769.a40080mchappell@argonet.co.uk>, Michael Chappell
<mchappell@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> 1. If I have an external HD, I presume it would be an IDE disc; how is
> this connected to the computer?

With a very short IDE lead and a power connector running out the back. It's
exposed and connected via wires that pass through RFI/EMC shielding. Hmmm...

Have you a 2nd floppy disc? If not, you could fit it there. I have a 200Mb
ADFS::5 drive whizzing around under my floppy. It should be fine unless the
2nd drive you buy/have/whatever runs inordinably hot.


> 2. Can I fit an internal syquest into an A5000 ( I have a spare slot where
> the 2nd floppy would normally go) would this then connect to the same
> place as the existing HD?

Ah, you do. Well, as long as whatever device is no larger than your original
harddisc on the platter (is it the 40Mb Conner?) then yes. You may need to
plug the wires in before screwing the drive into place (no, I meant with a
screwdriver! <grin>) otherwise it is fiddly. 

You /may/ need a power lead splitter. Have no fear, unless you are running
some heavy stuff, your PSU will cope. The 200Mb is an older model so it is
rated pretty high compared to these modern drives.


Can't say for the SysQuest. Never had one. If it pretends to be an IDE drive
then it should work. A SysQuest won't be removable media unless it is small
enough to fit through the floppy disc cut-out. Certainly, if it is designed
to fit in a 5.25" bay (internal tape-streamer size) then it won't fit.


Having said that, there is NO option for another harddisc [1] so it might be
more cost effective to price up a 200Mb - 512Mb. ADFS cannot handle drives
larger than 512Mb [2] so buying a 1Gb drive won't work.


Once you have your drive, the only problems I see are getting the links
sorted. One drive must act as a "MASTER" (your current disc is probably set
up as a master, though some drives allow for a "only this drive"
configuration - usually laptop drives, but you never know). The other drive
must be set up as a SLAVE. It doesn't usually matter which is which,
although like standards usually are - different people implement them
differently. There are known incompatibilities where a certain drive won't
work with another type of drive and some drives won't work at all. Look in
the Acorn FAQ thing for more info on this.


If you require a step-by-step guide to hooking up a 2nd HD to an A5000,
follow the Frobnicate link on my homepage. Um... <clickety click> It's in
issue three, pages 6 and 7.

Actually, you /might/ be able to find it at   
"http://www.surcombe.demon.co.uk/frobnicate/issues/frob2.zip"
   (or try "frob02.zip")
though I cannot guarantee it. John may move all but the latest issue around.
Links are on his page (linked off mine - following links has got to be
easier than typing that lot in :-) ).


#include <smiley.h> [3]
PLEASE MEMORISE: FROBNICATE IS DISTRIBUTED AS AN ARCHIVED DTP FILE. IT
                 REQUIRES THE OVATION DTP SOFTWARE. A DEMO IS AVAILABLE
                 FROM GOOD ACORN BBSs. THERE IS NO IMPRESSION VERSION OR
                 HTML VERSION OR DRAW VERSION AND SUCH THINGS ARE RATHER
                 UNLIKELY. [4]


Okay. Hoped that has helped.
Roll the footnotes...


[1] Not /strictly/ true. You can buy an IDE card and fit another two devices
    to it. Then again, you could build yourself a 6502 podule instead of
    using !65Host. :-)

[2] Not /strictly/ true. There is a "Wizzo" ROM that fits into your 5th ROM
    socket to provide fancy stuff like partitions and large HDs and locking
    etc etc. Interested? Contact ICS.

[3] Just in case you didn't know, it is a C programming directive to get
    the preprocessor (bit that peeks at the text and twiddles things before
    the compiler gets it) to include a library (bit that defines a whole 
    load of other bits to save you writing it all yourself). In this case, 
    we include a library called "smiley" which prints a stonking [5] great
    smiley on the screen. It's a joke... :-)

[4] You'd be surprised how many people don't realise it is an Ovation file
    for Acorn computers... :-)

[5] Hey, Comic Relief is just around that corner. I think that entitles me 
    to utilise faddy words conceived by Lenny Henry... :-)



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In article <na.08fa954769.a40040rmurray@argonet.co.uk>, Richard Murray
<rmurray@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Having said that, there is NO option for another harddisc [1] so it might
> be
> more cost effective to price up a 200Mb - 512Mb. ADFS cannot handle drives
> larger than 512Mb [2] so buying a 1Gb drive won't work.

Sorry to butt in on this discussion, but can A5000s be upgraded to OS3.6 -
which obviously <does> support larger drives.

I ask because my former A5000 is now owned by my sister, who has just bought
my former 210MB drive from my RiscPC! (Keep it in the family but get paid
for it :-)) She has now already filled it - as I have with a 1.3GB disc! (Is
there some theory that says data expands to fill a HD whatever its size??)

Scotty

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In article <na.26f27c476b.a60110ri.scott@argonet.co.uk>, R.I. Scott
<ri.scott@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
 
> Sorry to butt in on this discussion, but can A5000s be upgraded to OS3.6 -
> which obviously <does> support larger drives.

No. 'fraid not.

Risc OS3.6 supports some harware changes in the RPC which simply
aren't there in the A5000.

VinceH

* Never underestimate someone who has nothing to lose.
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ftp.argonet.co.uk/Pub/Acorn/SoftRock                 vince.mh@argonet.co.uk
Soft Rock Software, FREEPOST (BS 7978), Westbury-on-Trym, Bristol, BS10 7BR
Tel: 0117 949 1634 Mobile (but only if you have /good/ reason): 0802 730056
Mon,17 Mar 1997.09:53:01

In article <na.78328d476c.a50110softrock@argonet.co.uk>, Soft Rock Software
<URL:mailto:softrock@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> In article <na.26f27c476b.a60110ri.scott@argonet.co.uk>, R.I. Scott
> <ri.scott@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>  
> > Sorry to butt in on this discussion, but can A5000s be upgraded to OS3.6 -
> > which obviously <does> support larger drives.
> 
> No. 'fraid not.
> 
> Risc OS3.6 supports some harware changes in the RPC which simply
> aren't there in the A5000.

Like two big ROMs rather than 4 small ones (:-)

Mike
-- 
     Mike Gilbert...an extra "i" keeps the junkmail away....

Michael Gilbert is currently appearing in 'An Evening With Dr Grace'
available through the Wessex Actors Company.

In article <na.08fa954769.a40040rmurray@argonet.co.uk>, Richard Murray
<rmurray@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> In article <na.72f0564769.a40080mchappell@argonet.co.uk>, Michael Chappell
> <mchappell@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > 1. If I have an external HD, I presume it would be an IDE disc; how is
> > this connected to the computer?
> 
> With a very short IDE lead and a power connector running out the back.
> It's
> exposed and connected via wires that pass through RFI/EMC shielding.
> Hmmm...
> 
> Have you a 2nd floppy disc? If not, you could fit it there. I have a 200Mb
> ADFS::5 drive whizzing around under my floppy. It should be fine unless
> the
> 2nd drive you buy/have/whatever runs inordinably hot.


Sorry this reply is late,I haven't had time to read and digest your help
properly  until now. Anyway.........I have a spare space where the second
floppy space is but there seems to be a plate that obscures the position.
This plate currently supports the first floppy. Does this have to be removed
if I fit a HD underneath?


> 
> If you require a step-by-step guide to hooking up a 2nd HD to an A5000,
> follow the Frobnicate link on my homepage. Um... <clickety click> It's in
> issue three, pages 6 and 7.


Hmmm....I logged on Arcade and downloaded the demo of Ovation and then
downloaded the archived file of Frobnicate. However, even though  Ovation
loaded it wouldn't load the Frobnicate file saying 'ArcFS in use'. I tried
with SparkPlug but that didn't work either.   :(

Thanks for your help, Richard.



Mike

P.S. I only really need the syquest for backing up the first HD. Would
another HD be the best option or not?





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My ... whatever-it's-called ... isn't as good as it used to be.
Tue,18 Mar 1997.00:02:44

In article <na.b681c8476c.a40080mchappell@argonet.co.uk>, Michael Chappell
<mchappell@argonet.co.uk> wrote:


> Anyway.........I have a spare space where the second floppy space is but 
> there seems to be a plate that obscures the position. This plate currently
> supports the first floppy. Does this have to be removed if I fit a HD 
> underneath?

You mean the platter? It's a kind of metal 'thing' (how technical) that
spans the width of the machine.

If so, then yes. You need to remove it to fit the HD and then put it back
afterwards. I /did/ say it was fiddly.

If you have Ovation, download the appropriate Frobnicate. Pictures included
in that text. Otherwise:

1. Switch off everything, remove the lid.
2. Unscrew and remove all podules.
3. Unscrew the backplane (4 screws) and gently ease it out.
4. Disconnect the floppy disc and harddisc power and data leads.
5. There should be a screw in the middle of the platter, towards the front
   of the machine. Remove it.
6. The platter tilts up at the back, and slides out at an angle. When you
   are holding the platter in your hands, place it back loosely in place and
   figure out where the cables should go for best effect.

The rest is simply fiddling around with the hardware. You'll find getting
the screws into the 2nd harddisc to be, erm, interesting... :-)


My advice to you:
  Once the disc is fitted, put the platter back in place, place the
  backplane into it's socket. Hook up keyboard and monitor and give it a
  whirl. I had to try several times before I got the links sorted (didn't
  have much in the way of paperwork!). As long as the leads are all hooked
  up correctly, you shouldn't break anything by having the drives configured
  wrongly. The computer will pass self-test and freeze (expecting an ACK
  from the harddiscs). Again, the Frobnicate article described my links.

  Once it boots, switch off and screw everything into place.


Good luck. Fiddly but worthwhile.


If you have a drive that runs hot (unusual for IDE) then be aware that the
space between the drive and the floppy is next to nothing. However a well
maintained system will provide airflow across it. Pop out the cover over the
2nd floppy slot and wiggle your fingers in the hole. Feel the air? It's
quite an impressive design in this respect. You may like to give your
computer a clean-out whilst it is open. :-)

Oh, and don't be surprised if it is noisy. The platter tends to act as an
amplifier. I've used some carefully placed bits of window sealing strip. :-)


> Hmmm....I logged on Arcade and downloaded the demo of Ovation and then
> downloaded the archived file of Frobnicate. However, even though  Ovation
> loaded it wouldn't load the Frobnicate file saying 'ArcFS in use'. I tried
> with SparkPlug but that didn't work either.   :(

Maybe you were short on memory?


> P.S. I only really need the syquest for backing up the first HD. Would
> another HD be the best option or not?

Depends upon what you need really. :-)



-- 

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 /  \ichard.   http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rmurray
 

In article <na.26f27c476b.a60110ri.scott@argonet.co.uk>
          R.I. Scott <ri.scott@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> Sorry to butt in on this discussion, but can A5000s be upgraded to OS3.6 -
> which obviously <does> support larger drives.

RISC OS 3.6 will not work in the A5000 quite simply because there isn't any
support code in RO 3.6 for the older hardware and it's 4MB rather than 2MB.
But it may be possble to soft load the new Filecore. Failing that there's
both Wizzo and EADFS which can be used to partition larger drives. 
 
> Is there some theory that says data expands to fill a HD whatever its size?

It's generally accepted that the more memory you have, the more you need....
 
> Scotty

Cheers,

Pat. 

-- 
�=============================================================================�
| Patrick Herborn,      |  pat@nanobyte.demon.co.uk  |  Primary Mail Address  |
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Immensely inspiring tagline follows....
.. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's intolerance.

In article <na.26f27c476b.a60110ri.scott@argonet.co.uk>
          R.I. Scott <ri.scott@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>I ask because my former A5000 is now owned by my sister, who has just bought
>my former 210MB drive from my RiscPC! (Keep it in the family but get paid
>for it :-)) She has now already filled it - as I have with a 1.3GB disc! (Is
>there some theory that says data expands to fill a HD whatever its size??)

Yes.  It states that data expands to fill an HD whatever its size. 
However, you will find with a bigger HD that you wind up with lots
more dispensable data if you are really that desperate for space. 
My 210MB drive hovered with about 30MB free towards the end of its
use - my new 1.7GB drive hovers around being roughly half full.

-- 
Cheers now, John                                          Download FROBNICATE!
Your established Acorn magazine:   http://www.surcombe.demon.co.uk/frobnicate/

Er.....I will say this very quitly for fear of being laughed at. I bought a
new hard dive for RiscPC 700 (Quautum Fireball 1.28GB) and on receiving it
through the post, there were no screws or anything to fix it into the spair
3.5" drive bay in the second slice (I want both dives set up). Should there
be or is the dive held be the case or something. I apologise for this
question but I had a IBM before and I'm not familiar with Acorn case design.

Thanks for any help.
Philip  
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In article <na.d90200476f.a60120pgarnett@argonet.co.uk>, Philip Garnett
<URL:mailto:pgarnett@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Er.....I will say this very quitly for fear of being laughed at. I bought a
> new hard dive for RiscPC 700 (Quautum Fireball 1.28GB) and on receiving it


As a temporary measure, remove the metal clip that holds the floppy drive in
place and use that to hold the new hard drive in place. The clip just slides
into place and will not damage the drive. I had a Conner scsi drive held in
place like this for about a year with no ill effects on either the drive or
the machine. I am assuming that the new drive is a 3.5" job of course.

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In article <na.d90200476f.a60120pgarnett@argonet.co.uk>, Philip Garnett
<URL:mailto:pgarnett@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Er.....I will say this very quitly for fear of being laughed at. I bought a
> new hard dive for RiscPC 700 (Quautum Fireball 1.28GB) and on receiving it
> through the post, there were no screws or anything to fix it into the spair
> 3.5" drive bay in the second slice (I want both dives set up). Should there
> be or is the dive held be the case or something. I apologise for this
> question but I had a IBM before and I'm not familiar with Acorn case design.
> 
> Thanks for any help.

I think your supplier should have included fixing screws. The drive will
have threaded holes (or whatever the technical term is) in the base which
should match with holes in the drive bay. (If they don't match it's a simple
matter to drill the plastic.) All you need is a couple of screws to fix it
in.

I once bought a small Quantum drive from Alsystems which arrived without any
screws, and being in a hurry to fit it I tried to get them from Maplins. They
had nothing with the correct thread, which isn't BA or Metric. Eventually
Alsytems sent me a set with apologies for forgetting to include them. I'd
still like to know what the correct thread is though.

-- 
Mike Lane

<rant mode>

If it's not one thing, its another...moan,moan.

</rant mode>

Now that's off my chest, I need to ask all you brilliant Acorn owners
<grovel> about a problem I have a problem with my floppy disc drive. 

As you may know, after a lot of good advice I decided to invest in an
Atomwide fast serial card which, I must say, does speed things up a bit
(even with the problem of the news download speed, but I digress). After
fitting the podule, I put the disc provided by Atomwide in to load up a new
version of !SerialDev and an error message came up:

Disc not formatted

I then tried my other backup discs, program discs and found that *all* my
floppy discs came up with the same message.

All I can think of is that I dislodged something when putting in the podule.
I tried taking out all the podules (386 card) etc and reseating them but to
no avail.


Has anyone got any ideas?



Mike



P.S. I must thank Atomwide who provided me with the programs that were on
the disc within hours by email. Thanks guys!


 

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   =(=^*^=)=    S    Marina Chappell - marina@argonet.co.uk
     / ~ \      T 
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... Any computer equipment, when running correctly, is obsolete.
Tue,25 Mar 1997.00:10:09

In article <na.d90200476f.a60120pgarnett@argonet.co.uk>, Philip Garnett
<URL:mailto:pgarnett@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> on receiving it
> through the post, there were no screws or anything to fix it into the spair
> 3.5" drive bay in the second slice (I want both dives set up). Should there
> be or is the dive held be the case or something.
None of the harddiscs I've bought come with screws.
They take a special size, not a normal metric or imperial size.
When fixing my SCSI harddisc in, I used some nylon screws from Maplin.
They're slightly too big, but because they're nylon, I've just forced them in.
Naturally they' not a strong as metal ones, but I don't know where to get metal
ones of the right size from (at least, not on their own).

BFN !
-- 
|)
|\obin (or rp-clive@uwe.ac.uk)
www.arcstone.demon.co.uk

In article <ant2419510b04X#s@arcstone.demon.co.uk>, Robin Clive-Matthews
<URL:mailto:robin@arcstone.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> In article <na.d90200476f.a60120pgarnett@argonet.co.uk>, Philip Garnett
> <URL:mailto:pgarnett@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > on receiving it
> > through the post, there were no screws or anything to fix it into the spair
> > 3.5" drive bay in the second slice (I want both dives set up). Should there
> > be or is the dive held be the case or something.
> None of the harddiscs I've bought come with screws.
> They take a special size, not a normal metric or imperial size.

CPC supply the correct screw size. Can't remember what it is exactly,
as I asked them to ask a tech, who knew the answer.

Mike
-- 
     Mike Gilbert...an extra "i" keeps the junkmail away....

Michael Gilbert is currently appearing in 'An Evening With Dr Grace'
available through the Wessex Actors Company.

In article <na.7c1c1c4770.a40080mchappell@argonet.co.uk>, Michael Chappell
<mchappell@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> version of !SerialDev and an error message came up:
> 
> Disc not formatted
> 
> I then tried my other backup discs, program discs and found that *all* my
> floppy discs came up with the same message.
> 
It is also possibly the fact that the floppy connecting strip has been put
in the wrong way around. I got this message when I tried to put in the
Beebug external 5.25 disc interface. Spon as wires were put the other way
round, the drive functioned again (unfortunately, I never got to find out
how to get the  external interface back in!

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________   

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__________________________________________________________________________

In article <na.d90200476f.a60120pgarnett@argonet.co.uk>
          Philip  Garnett <pgarnett@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> Er.....I will say this very quitly for fear of being laughed at.

OK.

> I bought a new hard dive for RiscPC 700 (Quautum Fireball 1.28GB) and on
> receiving it through the post, there were no screws or anything to fix it
> into the spair 3.5" drive bay in the second slice (I want both dives set
> up). Should there be

The screws aren't usually supplied as standard; you're supposed to supply
your own. They're not difficult to get hold of... a quick trip to Maplins
will sort you out :-)

> or is the dive held be the case or something.

There is a 'clamp' that can be popped ontop of the drive, but I wouldn't rely
on that. I think you should screw the thing in place...

> I apologise for this question but I had a IBM before

Ah, the man has finally seen the light! :-)

> and I'm not familiar with Acorn case design.

You may still have some screws left over from your PC... they should do...
 
> Philip  

Cheers,

Pat.

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Immensely inspiring tagline follows....

.. I'll have what the guy on the floor is having...

In article <ant2419510b04X#s@arcstone.demon.co.uk>, Robin Clive-Matthews
<robin@arcstone.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> They're slightly too big, but because they're nylon, I've just forced them
> in. Naturally they' not a strong as metal ones,

Should be okay. I'd have thought kinetic shocks would destroy the drive
before it undid the screws. :-)


PS: Please include argonet in reply header as I've
    linked out of csa.hardware. Thanks.

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