🚀 go-pugleaf

In <1992Aug16.211310.1388@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umward10@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Derek Ward) writes:



>   Does anyone know if any of the authors of Citadel BBS can be reach via
>Internet?  Please mail me any info.  Thanks.

>Derek

>-- 
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>umward10@ccu.umanitoba.ca     <=- That's me.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------


          FOR THE RECORD:

The "Authors" of Citadel, as listed in the FISH description of the program
are NOT the authors of the Citadel program!
    ^^^

They are the authors of the AMIGA VERSION, not of Citadel itself.  Citadel
was the brain-child of Jeffrey S. Prothero some 10 years ago in CP/M.  He
is here at the UW on glia.biostr.  The program was the first of its kind
in a world of linear BBS's.

Please, Mr. Fish, correct your records so that they do not imply erroneous
authorship.  Citadel is one H*ll of a program, and credit for it's original
and innovative design should not be taken away from the original author.

And, yes, I have first hand knowledge of this because I worked on the
original program with Jeff when it was in beta test at ICS on Bainbridge
Island, Wa. back in 1981/2.


Thank you...

Crystal

In <crystal.714018267@glia> crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:

>In <1992Aug16.211310.1388@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umward10@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Derek Ward) writes:

>          FOR THE RECORD:

>The "Authors" of Citadel, as listed in the FISH description of the program
>are NOT the authors of the Citadel program!
>    ^^^

>They are the authors of the AMIGA VERSION, not of Citadel itself.  Citadel
>was the brain-child of Jeffrey S. Prothero some 10 years ago in CP/M.  He
>is here at the UW on glia.biostr.  The program was the first of its kind
>in a world of linear BBS's.

>Please, Mr. Fish, correct your records so that they do not imply erroneous
>authorship.  Citadel is one H*ll of a program, and credit for it's original
>and innovative design should not be taken away from the original author.

>And, yes, I have first hand knowledge of this because I worked on the
>original program with Jeff when it was in beta test at ICS on Bainbridge
>Island, Wa. back in 1981/2.

 I've never known the real name of the person who originally wrote Citadel
for CP/M.  I only recall that his psuedoname started with a 't', and
that he was in Washington.  So this is above info is quite likely
correct.

 However, as I understand the story.  The original author gave up
on Citadel completely early on.  Development was taken over by
Hue, Jr.(psuedoname) in Minneapolis.  Citadel from there was ported
over to MS-DOS, under the name Citadel-86.  The Amiga version of
Citadel written by Jay was a port of the Citadel-86 code.
 
 I'm by no means an expert on this.  I'm from the Minneapolis
area and have been using the Citadel's in that region since
about 1984, and followed Citadel from it's versions on CP/M,
MS-DOS, C-128, Amiga, Atari ST, and even Macintosh.

 If anybody is truely interested in more of the history of Citadel
I know that Hue Jr.'s BBS used to have a history file on there,
and I'd be willing to obtain this and forward this info.


-- 
Steve Sheldon         sheldon@iastate.edu
Iowa Cooperative Soil Survey Resource Unit
2142 Agronomy, Iowa State University  (515) 294-5429

In <sheldon.714031666@pv141b.vincent.iastate.edu> sheldon@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) writes:

>In <crystal.714018267@glia> crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:

>>In <1992Aug16.211310.1388@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umward10@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Derek Ward) writes:

>>          FOR THE RECORD:

>>The "Authors" of Citadel, as listed in the FISH description of the program
>>are NOT the authors of the Citadel program!
>>    ^^^

>>They are the authors of the AMIGA VERSION, not of Citadel itself.  Citadel
>>was the brain-child of Jeffrey S. Prothero some 10 years ago in CP/M.  He
>>is here at the UW on glia.biostr.  The program was the first of its kind
>>in a world of linear BBS's.

>>Please, Mr. Fish, correct your records so that they do not imply erroneous
>>authorship.  Citadel is one H*ll of a program, and credit for it's original
>>and innovative design should not be taken away from the original author.

>>And, yes, I have first hand knowledge of this because I worked on the
>>original program with Jeff when it was in beta test at ICS on Bainbridge
>>Island, Wa. back in 1981/2.

> I've never known the real name of the person who originally wrote Citadel
>for CP/M.  I only recall that his psuedoname started with a 't', and
>that he was in Washington.  So this is above info is quite likely
>correct.

> However, as I understand the story.  The original author gave up
>on Citadel completely early on.  Development was taken over by
>Hue, Jr.(psuedoname) in Minneapolis.  Citadel from there was ported
>over to MS-DOS, under the name Citadel-86.  The Amiga version of
>Citadel written by Jay was a port of the Citadel-86 code.
> 
> I'm by no means an expert on this.  I'm from the Minneapolis
>area and have been using the Citadel's in that region since
>about 1984, and followed Citadel from it's versions on CP/M,
>MS-DOS, C-128, Amiga, Atari ST, and even Macintosh.

> If anybody is truely interested in more of the history of Citadel
>I know that Hue Jr.'s BBS used to have a history file on there,
>and I'd be willing to obtain this and forward this info.


>-- 
>Steve Sheldon         sheldon@iastate.edu
>Iowa Cooperative Soil Survey Resource Unit
>2142 Agronomy, Iowa State University  (515) 294-5429


Jeff's pseudonym was CrT  (Short for Cynbe ru Taren from "Star Fox"). 
The program was written in Seattle, Washington.

As for him "giving up on it early on", the program was quite complete
with the exception of the Ward Christiansen protocal when he placed it
in the public domain.  For personal reasons, which he now regrets, he
stripped his name off and sent it in anonymously against the wishes of 
myself and MANY of his friends and users...the decision upset a lot of us.

In this area, Bruce King took over the code and created Polaris and
started touting the program as his because he had made so many cosmetic
changes..  (I am hazy on the details here, because this happened after I 
left the BBS world in 1983 and this is second hand knowledge.)

Another fellow, Kerry Keyes, was still working with the local Citadel
code as late as last year.  He was also one of those who was around in the
beginning years of Citadel.

My guess is that there are MANY history files of the program around, and
those that come from the Seattle area are likely more accurate than
any that may come from other parts of the country.  After all, if any
one HERE didn't mention Jeff in some way in it (against his wishes at
the time) LOTS of folks would have jumped on them!

I will see about getting a copy of a local history file when Jeff returns
from vacation.  He is due back shortly.  About 2-3 years ago he renewed
his interest in Citadel and started collecting sites where it being used.
I don't believe he is doing any programming on it, though I *think* his
brother, Jerry, is trying to convert it into C++ as a hobby project. It
has been a *long* time since I have heard anything about local Citadel
programming from these two.

But, yes, it's true...he is the original author.  He had the room system
idea, was told it wouldn't work, and did it anyway.  A rival, Glenn Gorman
started work on the MiniBin system shortly afterwards and the Seattle
area was split among the two sides for whose room system was best when
they finally came online.  (Not being a programmer, I can't comment).

Does that shed a bit more light on the history?


Crystal
  ;>

==========================================================================
The past has passed.  Learn from it and move on.  Who you once were often
has no bearing on who you are now.  Live in the present.  I love the NOW!
==========================================================================

  From the UNIDEL (Unix Citadel) Docs...

HISTORY.DOC

                            Citadel
                       Bulletin Board System

Citadel was written in mid-December 1981 by CrT. Miraculously, it
ran three days unattended over New Year's, collecting some
remarkably favorable reactions. During the months that it ran at
633-3282 (ODD-DATA), Citadel became one of the more popular BBs in
town, and there was some disappointment when a hardware failure
forced the system down in February of 1982.  But in January CrT had
published the  source code in BDS C, putting it in the public domain.

David Mitchell brought up the next incarnation of the Citadel
program in April of 1982, running on hardware provided by Richard
Knox.  Called the Island Communication System, it is located on
Bainbridge Island in Puget Sound.  ICS has about 30 regular users
and about 120 log entries. Newcomers find it easy to learn, and
often leave messages praising it. Some of the system's daily users
are in Boston.

Citadel is descended from DandD.pas, an adventure game editor/driver.
It is arranged as a series of rooms, starting with the LOBBY.  In
each room the user can read existing messages and leave more. There
may be up to 128 rooms in the current implementation. The system was
brought up with only one room, the LOBBY.  Additional rooms were
created by the users, with room names appropriate to the topics covered.

This is being written (82Dec07) as the Version 2 beta-test goes out.
Version 1 got a friendly reception and had relatively few bugs.  We'll
see if this is a trend or fluctuation...

Environment:  Citadel has had a checkered past.  It first ran on a
64K Heath H89 with Magnolia CP/M, Hayes Smartmodem (plus an acoustic
on another port) and BDS C V1.32. Further development was done under
BDS C 1.4x on a TRS-80 with Omikron CP/M, a Teletek FDC-1, and a
Furgeson Big Board.  At present the ICS implementation runs on the
FDC-1, while development is done on the Big Board. Version 2 was
tested on the original H89, now with dual 8" SSDD drives :-) and a
printer, Magnolia CP/M V2.223 :-( , and BDS C 1.46.

Starting with the 82Jan posting on Seattle's MailBoard (thanks John!),
various fragments of Version 1 seem to have percolated around the
country. This version 2 release should supercede them and save
people the frustration of trying to make sense out of them.

David Mitchell
CrT

85Apr27
   Having obtained Citadel 2.10 from CUG through SuperComp, and then
having helped upgrade it to Citadel 2.40 using, at various times, a
H89 and a Z-100, Citadel-86 for MS-DOS 2.xx was developed in order
to ... um.  Well, in any case, the first version of Citadel-86 went
up on the 8088 side of a Z-100 in the Fall of '84, using MS-DOS 2.13.

   As the months passed and as the whims hit the translator, Citadel-86
came closer and closer to being functionally identical to Citadel 2.40,
and in January '85 the final downloading stuff was added, thus
coming close 'nuff to Citadel 2.40's main programs for the translator.
During March and April of '85, the utilities of Citadel 2.40
underwent translation and by mid-April, the last of these utilities
had been translated and at least superficially tested, thus
completing the Citadel translation process (thank ghod).

   Now all that remains is isolating and killing the final few bugs,
some of which the translator is certain are resident in the compiler
in use (otherwise he'd have to admit to having made mistakes, lord
forbid!).

   Oh, and by the way, the name Citadel-86 was the suggestion of a
certain Lord Castleregh, and was selected after a polling process of
the first Citadel-86 system (Test System).
                                                Hue, Jr.

85Jun13
   Ha Ha Ha. Here we are, thinking we only have a few more bugs to
hit? Silly me, I decided to add in the auto-networking stuff on a
whim. WHAT have I created? Whom knows ...

                                                Hue, Jr.

87Sep09
    And now it's been ported to the Atari ST.  My porting job wasn't
even difficult -- it took me just over a month to get it running on
the Atari ST.  STadel has become a very popular program in the last
6 months, with about 40 sites around the country (and outside! I've
heard reports that there is a STadel in Italy!, of all places.)

    STadel is slowly diverging from C-86, since I've decided to
try to reverse-engineer modifications that Hue, Jr. has put into
C-86 rather than just repeat ports of his code. That's introduced
a few, um, interesting bugs and variant behaviors....

    Quite a few people have helped with STadel.  Dale Schumacher
(Dalnefre') wrote/ported a UUCP packet-driver which I used as a
kernel for my UUCP mail gateway, Jay Johnson has provided quite
a bit of useful advice and code fragments from his implementation
of Citadel for the Amiga, and Hue, Jr. continues to diddle C-86,
providing me with a endless source of headaches..., umm, er,
inspiration.
                                                orc

24 Apr 88
    And now Unidel has been written from the ground up to run under
UNIX* and in front of UseNet News.  It's been five months since the
first time I saw STadel.  I spent three months continuing to diddle
with a BBS for UNIX and News when it hit me that Citadel was what I
really wanted.  Today it's up and running.

    Unidel is a major diversion from STadel and Citadel.  To the
person using Unidel it is identical to STadel, to the sysadmin it
is a news reader similar to 'vnews'.  The files and organization
are those 'normal' to UNIX, users are in the passwd file and have
home directories, the message base is UseNet News, the networker
is News and UUCP, mail is handled by the system mailer, and all
configuration and user files are editable text files.

                                Ken

P.S.  About this time orc is also doing a direct port of STadel
to UNIX.  Those looking for a self-contained system or a system
that evolves with the other ports of STadel would do well to
take a look at it.

19 Dec 90
    After a few system crashes, systems sold, four versions of UNIX
and months without access to a computer, Unidel is now on it's way out
into the world.  Unidel now networks with STadels and (marginally)
Cit-86s using citnet, has more robust and UseNet-compatible handling
of mail and news headers, is relatively clean coded, supports multiple
private mail rooms and uses external editors and file transfer
programs.

                                Ken
                                ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us

*UNIX is a trademark of AT&T
--
 Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
                Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
              she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel

THANK YOU!!!