🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1990Dec4.183634.3676@csc.anu.oz.au> myb100@csc.anu.oz.au writes:
>
>Amyway, sometimes on boot-up, my 'm' and 'n' keys don't work. 'Fine' everybody
>says - 'check your keyboard contacts'. Well, yes, that'd be my reaction too,
>except for this: There is no way to cheat in software to get the 'n' or 'm' to
>appear either. I used Snap to pick up a word containing an 'n', and when I
>put it down, the 'n' was gone !!

Well, I remember similar things from the very old days with an A1000 here.
But I fail to remember what we did against it. When such a thing happens
today to my Ami, then surely I had a terrible software running before
that destroyed some of the system RAM. (But I can't explain why it always
hits the 'm' and/or 'n' key, I experienced the same.) So, do you have
anything in your startup-sequence that could deliver such unpredictable
results?

Perhaps this is simply a RAM hardware problem. One should have a severe
RAM testing software on hand that could check such a RAM thoroughly.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to  \\  Only my personal opinions... 
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk

peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes:
> myb100@csc.anu.oz.au writes:

>>Amyway, sometimes on boot-up, my 'm' and 'n' keys don't work. 'Fine' everybody
>>says - 'check your keyboard contacts'. Well, yes, that'd be my reaction too,
>>except for this: There is no way to cheat in software to get the 'n' or 'm' to
>>appear either. I used Snap to pick up a word containing an 'n', and when I
>>put it down, the 'n' was gone !!

>Well, I remember similar things from the very old days with an A1000 here.
>But I fail to remember what we did against it. When such a thing happens
>today to my Ami, then surely I had a terrible software running before
>that destroyed some of the system RAM. (But I can't explain why it always
>hits the 'm' and/or 'n' key, I experienced the same.) So, do you have
>anything in your startup-sequence that could deliver such unpredictable
>results?

Oh, its not all that mysterious.  The handling software for the keyboard
thinks the left amiga key is pressed, and so it is interpreting the m and
n keys as screen flip commands, which, with only one screen, are no-ops.

Apparently the snap mechanism feeds the snapped text back in for insertion
far enough up the keypress food chain that the same error hits the string
being inserted.

Warm booting always fixes it for me; sometimes bouncing up and down on
the left amiga key works, too, but not often.

Kent, the man from xanth.
<xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>

peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes:

>In article <1990Dec4.183634.3676@csc.anu.oz.au> myb100@csc.anu.oz.au writes:
>>
>>Amyway, sometimes on boot-up, my 'm' and 'n' keys don't work. 'Fine' everybody
>>says - 'check your keyboard contacts'. Well, yes, that'd be my reaction too,

Hmmmm.
	very intereting. Perhaps Intuition is confused and trapping
	n and m because of An and Am screen flipping?

	'snap' probly inserts input events before intuition
	so it may well be intuition grabbing them.

	When this problem recurs next, run something that openas
	a custom screen, try typing n and m and see what happens.

In article <613@cbmger.UUCP>, peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes:
> In article <1990Dec4.183634.3676@csc.anu.oz.au> I (myb100) wrote:
>>
>>Anyway, sometimes on boot-up, my 'm' and 'n' keys don't work. 'Fine' everybody
>>says - 'check your keyboard contacts'. Well, yes, that'd be my reaction too,
>>except for this: There is no way to cheat in software to get the 'n' or 'm' to
>>appear either. I used Snap to pick up a word containing an 'n', and when I
>>put it down, the 'n' was gone !!
> 
> Well, I remember similar things from the very old days with an A1000 here.

Whew - I'm not alone... :-)

> But I fail to remember what we did against it. When such a thing happens

Aaaawwww :-(        :-)

> today to my Ami, then surely I had a terrible software running before
> that destroyed some of the system RAM. (But I can't explain why it always
> hits the 'm' and/or 'n' key, I experienced the same.) So, do you have
> anything in your startup-sequence that could deliver such unpredictable
> results?

Well, nothing 'unusual'. Mainly: PopUpMenu, MyMenu, VirusX, Snap, Arp, 
FastFonts, DMouse, and probably one or two other things I can't remember
right now. I did have this problem with my A1000 as well, and my startup-seq.
for _it_ was very simple - I didn't start customising until I got my A2000(B)
with HD... so I don't think it's anything in the SSeq. ...?

> Perhaps this is simply a RAM hardware problem. One should have a severe
> RAM testing software on hand that could check such a RAM thoroughly.

Yes, one should.... Anybody have one I could beg/borrow/ftp ? :-)

Thanks
> Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to  \\  Only my personal opinions... 
> Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk

Any further comments/suggestions out there ?

===============================================================================
 Markus Buchhorn                                           ///  | This space
 Mt Stromlo and Siding Spring Observatories, Canberra     ///   | 
 PMB Weston Ck. P.O. A.C.T. 2611, Australia           \\\///    | intentionally
 markus@mso.anu.oz.au  -or-  nssdca::psi%mssso::markus \XX/     | left blank
===============================================================================

In article <1990Dec4.183634.3676@csc.anu.oz.au> myb100@csc.anu.oz.au writes:
=Amyway, sometimes on boot-up, my 'm' and 'n' keys don't work. 'Fine' everybody
=says - 'check your keyboard contacts'. Well, yes, that'd be my reaction too,
=except for this: There is no way to cheat in software to get the 'n' or 'm' to
=appear either. I used Snap to pick up a word containing an 'n', and when I
=put it down, the 'n' was gone !!

I have (had :-) the same problem on my Amiga 500. What I read in some books
is that during system start up the keyboard is tested and all keys are checked.
What happened is that during booting I sometimes started typing probably too
early (i.e. during the keyboard test) and all keys pressed down at that moment
I could not use when the system was running. I now wait until my system has
completely started before touching the keyboard and I have never had this
problem again.
-- 
   _ _ 
  / U |  Dolf Grunbauer  Tel: +31 55 433233 Internet dolf@idca.tds.philips.nl
 /__'<   Philips Information Systems        UUCP     ...!mcsun!philapd!dolf
88  |_\  If you are granted one wish do you know what to wish for right now ?

Wow - the power of the net !

> myb100@csc.anu.oz.au (Me/I) writes:

>>Anyway, sometimes on boot-up, my 'm' and 'n' keys don't work. 'Fine' everybody
>>says - 'check your keyboard contacts'. Well, yes, that'd be my reaction too,
>>except for this: There is no way to cheat in software to get the 'n' or 'm' to
>>appear either. I used Snap to pick up a word containing an 'n', and when I
>>put it down, the 'n' was gone !!

peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes:
> [Noted he had the same problem, with the 'm' and 'n' keys too - but no fix]
>[Suggests something unusual in the startup-sequence... But I've had this before
>my startup-sequence had been 'modified' ]

From: xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan)
>Oh, its not all that mysterious.  The handling software for the keyboard
>thinks the left amiga key is pressed, and so it is interpreting the m and
>n keys as screen flip commands, which, with only one screen, are no-ops.

From: jap@convex.cl.msu.edu (Joe Porkka)
>	very intereting. Perhaps Intuition is confused and trapping
>	n and m because of An and Am screen flipping?

Nice suggestion - but no go. The example I gave was with VLT running on its
custom screen, WB up as usual. The 'm' and 'n' didn't work on either screen.
Amiga-M/N didn't give me screen flipping either - I could do it with the
DMouse LMB/RMB click trick though. Then again perhaps there's another
key involved, along with the left-amiga key... which blocks screen-flips ?

From: dolf@idca.tds.PHILIPS.nl (Dolf Grunbauer)
>I have (had :-) the same problem on my Amiga 500. What I read in some books
>is that during system start up the keyboard is tested and all keys are checked.
>What happened is that during booting I sometimes started typing probably too
>early (i.e. during the keyboard test) and all keys pressed down at that moment
>I could not use when the system was running. I now wait until my system has
>completely started before touching the keyboard and I have never had this
>problem again.

Hmm - I hadn't heard of that one. Well, I certainly don't touch the keyboard
until the system is ready - so it's not me typing too early. But perhaps
something is gratuitously sending 'm' and 'n' events during the startup...?
Perhaps a wobble-contact under the 'm/n' keys. At what stage is the keyboard 
tested, when the caps-lock light comes on, I imagine ? I'll keep an eye out
for that one. (Note that Peter Kittel had exactly the same problem with the
same keys)

BTW, I've had suggestions that I should take my S.Seq. apart to see if it is
one of the programs there. Somehow I have my doubts that this would be the
cause, because this problem only occurs *once* in every ~100 reboots ! (I'm
not that keen to reboot that many times in a short period of time....:-) ) and
this also happened on my A1000, which had only a normal SS, compared to
'thing' I've now got.

Anyway - Thanks for all these suggestions, both posted and E-mailed. It 
doesn't look like we've found the cause yet - although perhaps Dolf's
suggestion is on the right track...

===============================================================================
 Markus Buchhorn                                           ///  | This space
 Mt Stromlo and Siding Spring Observatories, Canberra     ///   | 
 PMB Weston Ck. P.O. A.C.T. 2611, Australia           \\\///    | intentionally
 markus@mso.anu.oz.au  -or-  nssdca::psi%mssso::markus \XX/     | left blank
===============================================================================

In article <1990Dec5.041711.1678@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, Joe Porkka writes:

> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes:
> 
> >In article <1990Dec4.183634.3676@csc.anu.oz.au> myb100@csc.anu.oz.au writes:
> >>
> >>Amyway, sometimes on boot-up, my 'm' and 'n' keys don't work. 'Fine' everybody
> >>says - 'check your keyboard contacts'. Well, yes, that'd be my reaction too,

   Do you by chance have an older A2000?

   This is very similar to the 'missing character' problem. I had the same
symptoms, and I solved it by cutting the two capacitors on the motherboard.
It seems that one of the special keys appear to the system to be held down.
This looks like the LAmiga key, I've also seen a case of the Ctrl key being
'held' in this way. Thus, everything you paste will have that qualifier,
but hitting the key (Ctrl/Alt/LAmiga/RAmiga) in question will make the
problem go away.

   Your local dealer should be able to do it. It is a HW problem.

                                            -Henrik

| Henrik Clausen, Graffiti Data | If the Doors of Perception where cleansed, |
| ...{pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!  | Man would see Reality as it is - Infinite. |
\______cbmehq!adspdk!hclausen___|_________________________________W. Blake___/

In article <1990Dec4.183634.3676@csc.anu.oz.au> myb100@csc.anu.oz.au writes:
>
>Amyway, sometimes on boot-up, my 'm' and 'n' keys don't work. 'Fine' everybody
>says - 'check your keyboard contacts'. Well, yes, that'd be my reaction too,
>except for this: There is no way to cheat in software to get the 'n' or 'm' to
>appear either. I used Snap to pick up a word containing an 'n', and when I
>put it down, the 'n' was gone !!

Sounds like the system thinks your Left-Amiga key is down - try just
tapping on it a couple of times, and see if it helps.

--
   ...Steve Tibbett...bix=s.tibbett...Plink=STEVEX...BBS=613-731-3419...
              ...VirusX=4.01...Insert Disclaimer Here...

In article <185209f7.ARN1185@adspdk.UUCP> hclausen@adspdk.UUCP writes:
>   This is very similar to the 'missing character' problem. I had the same
>symptoms, and I solved it by cutting the two capacitors on the motherboard.
>It seems that one of the special keys appear to the system to be held down.
>This looks like the LAmiga key, I've also seen a case of the Ctrl key being
>'held' in this way. Thus, everything you paste will have that qualifier,
>but hitting the key (Ctrl/Alt/LAmiga/RAmiga) in question will make the
>problem go away.
>
>   Your local dealer should be able to do it. It is a HW problem.

	This is not the "missing first character problem".  I've seen this
back in the A1000 days.  Run Sublogic's FS, then reboot, and n and m are 
unusable.  I don't know exactly what causes it (probably some keyboard
or CIA (mouse) related registers, but it most certainly can be caused by
software, and across boots.  I haven't seen it in ages.

-- 
Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
The compiler runs
Like a swift-flowing river
I wait in silence.  (From "The Zen of Programming")  ;-)