🚀 go-pugleaf

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>> RCPT To:<oar>
<<< 550 <oar>... User unknown
550 <oar%hut.uucp@fingate>... User unknown

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: by santra.UUCP (5.51/6.3.TeKoLa)
        id AA11413; Fri, 16 Jan 87 17:29:33 +0200
From: <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-Id: <8701161529.AA11413@santra.UUCP>
Received: by fingate Fri Jan 16 17:29:27
        from MAILER@FINHUTC.BITNET via rscs BSMTP.
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 0346; Fri, 16 Jan 87 11:43:32 FIN
Date:         Thu 15 Jan 87 16:53:56 PST
Reply-To: <Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu>
Sender: Atari ST users forum <INFO16@FINHUTC>
Comments:     X-To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject:      Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #23
To: <fingate!atari520>, <fingate!oar%hut.uucp>, <fingate!tripmgr%sampo.fudec>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<oar%hut.uucp@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fin

Info-Atari16 Digest   Thursday, January 15, 1987   Volume 87 : Issue 23

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

                     Yet another hard disk query
                              Re: MINIX
                    What Graphics for the Mega's ?
              Something old, something new (a proposal)
            Re: Re: Hard disk questions (40 folder limit)
                             Re: printers
                       programming the dma port
                       Csd - C source debugger
                       booting off a hard disk.
                          Re: resource files
                           Re: Atari rumor
                          Re: Screen Saver?
              More on Alcyon double float array problem
                       Re: Mac Emulator (idea!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 15 Jan 87  01:04:58 EST
From:  drukman%UMass.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU  (Jonathan S. Drukman)
Subject:  Yet another hard disk query
To:  info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

My friend owns a Supra hard drive.  After reading all the letters on
this list about the 40-folder limit, I warned him about the dangers.
He sent me the following reply:
>Also I would like to point out that from common sense, there is no way the
>desktop can have any knowledge about the folders on a disk that has never
>been opened.  For example, lets say I boot my hard disk, then close the
>floppy window and insert a disk with 39 folders on it into the drive. NOw
>assuming I never open that disk, there is no possible way for the computer
>to see those and be affected by them.
>  However, I am going to bring drive C down below 30 folders just in case...

Is this true?  I gathered from the letters that just HAVING the folders
around was a danger...

one last thing, to test the bug, he created a floppy with 59 folders on
it (he brought the hard drive down first, of course)... When he did a
SHOW INFO, it reported 38 folders...

--jon drukman
ARPA: jsd%oz@mit-mc
BITNET: drukman@umass
"Do do the cruel immersion
 Do do the flaming tie"
 - shriekback

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 13:50:54 GMT
From: mcnc!ecsvax!harris@seismo.css.gov  (Mark Harris)
Subject: Re: MINIX
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <1028@botter.cs.vu.nl>, ast@botter.cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
> Q2: How compatible does a machine have to be to run MINIX?
> A2: It needs a NEC uD765 chip as floppy disk controller, a Motorola 6845 as
>     video controller, etc.

Will MINIX run with an Enhanced Graphics Adapter?  My system has an
EGA/monochrome monitor.

- Mark Harris, Appalachian State University

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 15:14:13 GMT
From: mcvax!prlb2!bernard@seismo.css.gov  (Bernard Yves)
Subject: What Graphics for the Mega's ?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

The new MegaST's seem great : they have many interesting new features but
I'd like to have more informations about their new graphics.

Some postings say there will be the blitter chip built-in, some other
no.  Some rumors say that there will be an expansion card with a graphic
chip and allowing a 1024 * 1024 resolution on a monochrome monitor.

So, what is the truth ?

If we only consider the hardware, we nearly have everything for a good
small low-cost workstation : memory (2Meg, 4Meg), power (68000/88020).
But what about graphics ?  When will we have a screen (monochrome is
enough) with at least 1024*1024 resolution, good enough for true desktop
publishing and CAD applications ? What will be its price ?

What are the graphics improvements in the Mega family (if there are any) ?


                Yves Bernard
                Philips Research Labs, Brussels.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jan 87 01:18:22 GMT
From: bzs@bu-cs.bu.edu  (Barry Shein)
Subject: Something old, something new (a proposal)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Here's a wierd idealistic idea...

Let's face it, in the micro world we are destined to "get stuck" with
aging technology (ie. anything more than 6 months old.) The worst thing
is to create a back pressure on innovative vendors to hold back things
so old boxes (which may contain honest errors of design) might be upgraded
or kept compatible. So we need a solution that can be applied successfully
over and over again (other than whining every time :-)

Here's mine:

1. Offer a trade-in on the last model as a substantial discount against
the new model.

2. Sell these used systems at their steeply discounted price back to
schools who can (should be able to...) make good use of them.

3. Get the tax boys (and girls) to maximize that spread by having the
government kick in in the form of a tax deduction to the company (who,
more than likely, is incurring at least an operating cost for managing
the program.) There is little doubt in my mind that this would *not* be
a "tax scam", schools are spending on computers, this reduces the
govt's bills (or tuition on campuses, etc) and should be compensated.

4. Have a lottery or something simple like that to distribute the used
systems (I don't care, just keep it simple.)

5. Let the various vendors play one-upsmanship (one-upspersonship?)
on how far they can push such programs, ahh, competition at its
altruistic best!

Am I only a dreamer? A fool in love? So shoot me.

    -Barry Shein, Boston University

Fellow Americans, it may be ugly to think about, but there are places
in America where children go for days without hacking...

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 19:12:51 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu  (braner)
Subject: Re: Re: Hard disk questions (40 folder limit)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

IF giving GEMDOS a mediach() return value of "changed" once in while
(for the hard disk) will solve the 40-folders bug, it should be
trivial to write an utility that intercepts the mediach() vector
and returns "changed" periodically (say every 10th call).  Does
anybody know if that would work?  And should it return "maybe changed"
or "definitely changed"?

Is there another way to do it?

If that does not solve it, how about a utility that keeps track of
the number of folders you have "accessed"?  This would mean intercepting
the Rwabs() vector, looking at directory sectors when they are read,
scanning the entries, finding out which are subdirectories, noting
those down, and scanning those if they are later read.  Not trivial,
this one, but possible.  It should print a warning on the screen when
you're approaching the limit.

- Moshe Braner

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jan 87 04:51:38 GMT
From: jpexg@HERMES.AI.MIT.EDU  (John Purbrick)
Subject: Re: printers
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

 > I'm still searching for the right printer for my ST.
> In the January BYTE, page 402, there's an ad from FOCUS Computers where
> it says they'll sell you a Toshiba P321 printer for... $348.50!
> Is that a typo?  That printer costs a LOT more elsewhere: it's a 24-pin
> device..... Has anybody had any dealings with Focus?

I can't comment on the printer, but I just bought a printer from Focus. It came
in less than a week and is just as advertised. Mine's a Panasonic KXP1080i, it
cost $190 and is adequate for my purposes. Note that 24-pin printers tend not
to include a tractor feed! I thought of a 24-pin model too, but couldn't
justify the cost to myself. If you deal with the New York outfits,
expect a hard sell on their part for additional stuff (power line monitor, dust
cover, extra paper and ribbon, etc), but I've always won buying the printer
and photo equipment. No problems with extended delivery or ripoffs.

Regarding the price, beware. A glossy magazine's prices will be weeks out of
date, and the vendor won't stand by the advertised price (unless it's higher!).
The dollar just doesn't buy the yen it used to. Get the Sunday New York Times
and look in the second half of the second section--all the dealers advertise
there and the prices are usually good till the following Tuesday.

                        --John Purbrick
                        jpexg@hermes.ai.mit.edu

ps The Panasonic KXP1080i has a graphics resolution of 72 dots per inch (at
least, that's the highest resolution with equal X and Y resolution).

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 14:25:17 GMT
From: cyliax@ee.ecn.purdue.edu
Subject: programming the dma port
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Has anyone had any experience programming the dma port ? I have build
an interface to use on the port, but I have some problems accessing
it in software. I used the following code segment to access the port:
    {
    short rv;
    short *flock = (short *)0x43e;       /* flag to disable flpvbl routine */
    short *hdcreg = (short *)0xff8604; /* the fdc/sector count register */
    short *dmareg = (short *)0xff8606; /* dma mode/status register */

        while(!*flock)        /* wait for flock */
            ;
        *flock++ ;        /* and set it */

        *dmareg = 0x08;        /* select hdc register with A1 = 0 */
        *hdcreg = 0x00;        /* now write to it */
        rv = *hdcreg;        /* now read from it */

        *flock = 0;        /* enable flpvbl routine */
        return(rv);
    }
When this was run in supervisory mode, there was no activity on the dma port
control signals ( CS R/W* d0-d7 .. ) at all. Although the returned value
did reflect the state on the data lines, for example pulling one low would
reset the coreesponding bit in the returned value.  I have also tried putting
some delays between the reads and writes. Any hints or pointers would be
greatly apreciated.

                Ingo Cyliax
                cyliax@ee.ecn.purdue.edu
                cyliax@ihnp4!pur-ee

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 17:19:00 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!watnot!watrose!jafischer@rutgers.rutgers.edu  (Jonathan
 Fischer)
Subject: Csd - C source debugger
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Start Winter 86/87 lists both "Let's C" and "Csd" as if they are available
for the ST, yet I had read some time ago that Mark Williams Co. had no
plans for porting Csd.

Does ANYONE have any news about Csd for the ST?  Price?  Availability?

                -Jonathan Fischer

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 18:01:09 GMT
From: clyde!masscomp!ulowell!rstpierr@rutgers.rutgers.edu  (Pete St.Pierre)
Subject: booting off a hard disk.
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

I was told that even with a hard disk set up... The ST still needs a a
disk in the floppy drive to boot.  Is this really the case? It seems
to be a bit of a waste.

Replies:

USnail  Pete St.Pierre          UUCP:  wanginst!ulowell!rstpierr
        Box 2059
        Univ of Lowell
    Lowell, Ma. 01854

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 19:24:38 GMT
From: ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision!ubc-cs!manis@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Vincent Manis
Subject: Re: resource files
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

The only good reason for embedding a resource file in a program is when
writing a DA. The resource manager apparently doesn't free memory properly
when closing a resource file, so you're apparently advised not to load
resources dynamically. I wouldn't know--I've never written a DA.

However, embedded resources can't be easily changed; if you want to modify
resources, you have to re-edit the resource file and re-embed.  I can't see
how it's worth the effort.

In any case, separate .RSC files are a real win. You can easily distribute
different RSC files for one program (thus supporting various monitor
resolutions, or different languages for example).

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 11:35:42 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!sunybcs!leo@rutgers.rutgers.edu  (Leo Wilson)
Subject: Re: Atari rumor
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Perhaps Atari took it to heart that people aren't real pleased about the
40 folder limit and decided to put out a machine that wouldn't have such
an incredibly limiting problem. At least one vendor that I've spoken with
about networks (BMB Compuscience in Milton, Ontario) uses a PC or compatible
as the master/file server in a LAN scheme, neatly circumventing TOS's brain
problems.... This company is also the ONLY one I've spoken with that will
say "Yes, we'll network your ST's TODAY!", and I've called every one I've heard
of that's involved with an ST network...

Disclaimer: I'm not involved with BMB or atari, just trying to use ST's
at work... where they have a very sparse idea that Usenet exists and no
idea at all that the company name is in my .signature ...
--
Leo E. Wilson(leo@buffalo.csnet)    Niagara Paper Company
364 West Delavan Avenue            99 Bud-Mil Drive
Buffalo, NY 14213            Buffalo,  NY  14206
(716)883-7573                (716)856-5135 (0830-1700)

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 21:01:20 GMT
From: i.cc.purdue.edu!afo@j.cc.purdue.edu  (Alan Davis)
Subject: Re: Screen Saver?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <4160@utah-cs.UUCP> atwell@utah-cs.UUCP (Bart L. Atwell) writes:
>About a year ago, an accessory was posted that would turn off the screen.
>Unfortunately, it required you to select a desk accessory to do it.  Does
>anybody have one that turns off the screen after a certain amount of idle
>time and turns it back on at a key/mouse click?

I have solapak which for $29.95 will get you a ramdisk, print spooler and
adjustable screen saver that runs from the auto folder. It also contains a
configuration program that will allow you to disable the spooler and ramdisk
if you want. The sppoler is a desk accessory that comes with several printer
drivers and several "preset" print options.

Disclaimer:  <Solapak didn't give me any money to make this
presentation so I'm not making anything off of this if you or anyone
else buys it>

PPPPPPPPP    Alan Davis
PPPPPPPPPP      Purdue University Computing Center
  PP     PP
  PP     PP     Usenet: {backbone}!pur-ee!s.cc.purdue.edu!afo
  PPPPPPPP      BITNET: ADAVIS@PURCCVM
  PPPPPPP
  PP
  PP            Disclaimer: I don't agree with Purdue's opinions,
PPPPPP                      they don't agree with mine.
PPPPPP

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jan 87 10:35:07 GMT
From: voder!kontron!brad@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Brad Yearwood)
Subject: More on Alcyon double float array problem
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

I was waiting for somebody else to more-or-less confirm my finding
before posting this particular note.  Another posting received this
evening seems to confirm things sufficiently.

Try the following program:

  double a[16];
  main()
  {
    int i;
    double p, q;

    i = 10;
    p = 2.0;
    q = 3.0;
    a[i] = p * q;
  }

Examine the generated code.  Unless the late hour was impairing
my judgment, the double multiply library routine returns its result
in D0 and D1 (R0 and R1 - whatever you want to call them).  The
effective address calculation for a[i] promptly clobbers one or the
other of these registers before doing the stores of each half of
the result.  No wonder my Fast Fourier Transforms and digital
filters gave so many zero results that could be cured by breaking
the computation down into tiny bite sized pieces, carefully
avoiding any array element assignment more complex than:

  a[i] = <constant or static variable>

I also observed printf hangups in debugging - possibly the partially corrupted
stores create non-numbers which wedge the conversion routine.

When reduced to tiny bite-sized pieces, however, Alcyon lets the inverse FFT
of the FFT of 200 real data points zero-padded to 256, return very much the
original real data, with only 0.0 and -0.0 imaginary components, and 0.0
or -0.0 in the real components of the 56 original zero-fill points.  This
is all using the IEEE package - not the fast package.

My numerical luck with Mark Williams C hasn't been quite so good yet, with
substantial fuzz remaining in both the imaginary components and zero-fill.
They _do_ generate correct code, however.

Win a few and lose a few.  Maybe us seriously masochistic types who
like the idea of slow floating point image processing on a budget, really
just need a diversified portfolio of compilers to spread our risks.

Disclaimer:  This reflects work of strictly personal interest.  Though we are
commercially involved in image processing, my work at Kontron lies elsewhere.

Brad Yearwood
Kontron Electronics  {voder, pyramid}!kontron!brad
Mountain View, California
(415) 965-7020

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 87 17:01:58 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!watnot!watrose!jafischer@rutgers.rutgers.edu  (Jonathan
 Fischer)
Subject: Re: Mac Emulator (idea!)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <37@marque.UUCP> joeb@marque.UUCP (Joe Bronikowski) writes:
>In article <870@ark.cs.vu.nl> Patrick@ark.cs.vu.nl (Patrick van Kleef) writes:
>>
>>People tell me there is a way of preventing bus errors on the ST. This
>>type of error is generated by one line of the Glue chip, the so called
>>BERR line.
>>
>>Now what if we disconnected that line? In theory bus errors would be
>>impossible. Would it affect 'normal programs'? Will more Macintosh programs
>>run? Is there anyone who can figure this out?


The Mac has RAM in locations 0-8 that is unused by the OS (after booting),
and some Mac programs, you would think, must actually USE this RAM.  The ST
has ROM in that area (or is it just ROM in location 0?), so eliminating the
BERR would do no good.  The program would still not work.  It would be like
eliminating the sensation of pain.  You wouldn't feel that you have just
sawed off your right leg, but it would still be gone.
The above is based largely on hearsay and stuff from Magic Sac README files,
so I may be partly wrong.  Am I?
                -Jonathan Fischer

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------