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Received: by CANADA01 (Mailer X1.24) id 4012; Fri, 02 Oct 87 13:11:05 EDT
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Sender:   INFO-A16@CANADA01
From:     INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
Subject:  Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #351
To:       DUBRAVKO@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU

Info-Atari16 Digest   Friday, October  2, 1987   Volume 87 : Issue 351

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

                  Re: Sound Familiar (Tramiel Inc.)
                          Re: TeX and dvi2ps
                   Help on laser printers requested
                     Re: Atari Trak-Ball for sale
              RE: Arpanet Archives at RADC-Softvax.arpa
   Re: Copyright status of Ctex and Common-Tex: whose copyright ???
                         Coming up for OXYGEN
                         MJC compiler: 'bug'
                      Re: magic sac info wanted
                        Atari Transputer Info
                           Re: "microemacs"

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Date: 30 Sep 87 03:32:56 GMT
From: ihnp4!drutx!druhi!med@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (DrapalME)
Subject: Re: Sound Familiar (Tramiel Inc.)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <852@atari.UUCP>, dyer@atari.UUCP (Landon Dyer) writes:
> In article <5441@utcsri.UUCP>, juancho@utcsri.UUCP (John Buchanan) writes:
> >     -There can only be 20 files open in the whole system at one time.
> >
> >     -A compile requires 6 files to be open at the same time.
> >
> >     ... EXCESS VERBAGE DELETED ...
> >
> >
> >     =========================================================
> >     *  These opinions are mine but after atari reads them   *
> >     *  they will probably start climing that they are theirs*
> >     =========================================================
>
> Give it a rest.
>
> None of the Tramiels read usenet, so you are wasting your time
> bashing seven or eight rather over-worked software engineers.
>

My, My, have we finally hit a living nerve here???  It's been so long since
*ANYONE* from Atari responded here with much more than rumors and the ever
expanding list of vaporware and empty promises...

But seriously, folks, didn't you enjoy the new product announcement.  It
probably would be more appropriate if the release date was changed to
"by Christmas", just in time to overhang the market...

*** FLAME ON *** (maybe I should have done this a few lines sooner..)

As one of the original ST owners (yes, my 520ST was built prior to 12/85),
I am really *sick and tired* of the overwhelming rash of new product
announcements that seem to come from Atari every time some other company
plans to announce a similar product (you folks never really believed that
the Atari PC existed, do you?? -- If you did, I have some swamp land to
sell, just give me a call...).  Atari announced their PC to eclipse the
announcement of the Amstrad PC, and amazingly enough, no one has seen it
since.  Our ST club, of which I happen to be the current president (oh well,
some of us just have no common sense...) had an Atari show here in Denver
just after the infamous PC announcement --- Did we see it??? No, because it
is a figment of "seven or eight rather over-worked software engineers"
(sorry Landon, but those are your words, not mine).  When we asked Neil where
it was, we got something like 'there is a show in Europe, and it is more
important that it was there'. (e.g. we only have one, and it doesn't really
work, and we can hide that fact at a European show much easier than we
could here at a computer fair where people could actually put their hands
on it - Yuk!).

Need I go on with more examples:
    1) How about the CD-ROM... Haven't heard about that one since
       last Christmas...
    2) The Laser printer... Just "any time now"...
    3) The Blitter... My 520ST should last so long...
       etc, etc...

Yes, it is sour grapes, because I believed in Atari and what they promised
for the future.  I believed them when the 8-bit line was around (remember
the 1450XL?).  Yes, that was a different Atari (the names change, but the
customer support remains the same - or goes downhill fast).

Guess its time for me to "give it a rest" and decide how much money I'll
be asking for my ST....

*** FLAME OFF ***

===========================================================================
                Myron Drapal
                ..!ihnp4!druhi!med
===========================================================================
P.S. Flame me, I love the e-mail.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 87 11:56:03 EDT
From: "Michael R. DeCorte" <mrd%sun.mcs.clarkson.edu@forsythe.stanford.edu>
To: INFO-ATARI16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: TeX and dvi2ps

There have been some requests for TeX on the ST. I will be porting TeX
and dvi2ps to the ST but I have to tend to my classes first so
it might not be till X-mas break that I can even take a serious
look.  I have ported CTeX and dvi2ps to several computers and
believe it won't be to painfull but it will still take a while.

mrd@clutx.clarkson.edu
Michael DeCorte

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 87 12:47:00 EDT
From: "Robert Menton" <menton@acoustics.nrl.mil>
Subject: Help on laser printers requested
To: "info-atari16" <info-atari16@score.stanford.edu>
Reply-To: "Robert Menton" <menton@acoustics.nrl.mil>

    What brand & model laser printer should we buy?

    We have several STs at work, serving as terminals to the VAXen/Cray via
UniTerm or AnsiGraf, as database managers, word processors, makers of
viewgraphs with Easy Draw, Publishing Partner and Degas Elite, time managers,
running AC/Fortran, using spreadsheets in VIP Elite, learning C, TeX, etc.
We'd like to add a laser printer output capability to these applications.
Right now, we settle for near-letter-quality and graphics mode outputs from
Epson dot matrix printers.

    Recommendations are solicited.  I think we want a PostScript compatible
laser printer, since PP and (I think) Easy Draw have PostScript drivers. That
would leave out Atari's laser printer, even if it was available.  Email
directly to me, or to the net if you think your ideas might have wider appeal.
Thanks.

                    Bob Menton
                    ARPAnet: MENTON@NRL-ACOUSTICS

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 87 17:06:49 GMT
From: zen!cory.Berkeley.EDU!ranjit@cad.Berkeley.EDU  (Ranjit Bhatnagar)
Subject: Re: Atari Trak-Ball for sale
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

>   Atari "Trak-Ball" for sale.  It has a trackball/joystick switch.
>   Brand new condition.  Asking for $15 plus postage or best offer.

I might nte, for those of you who were looking for a trackball, that Kaybee
Toys, an apaprently nationwide chain, is selling Atari trackballs for
$8.  Also radio controlled joysticks, a pair for $12, but those just
seem so decadent...

Disclaimer: I have no relationship with Kaybee Toys except as a customer.
(I buy all my bubble-soap there.)


 .......(o o).......  ranjit@cory.berkeley.edu
 ---vvv---U---vvv---  ucbvax!cory!ranjit

------------------------------

Date:     Wed, 30 Sep 87 12:51:22 EDT
From: Rodney Peck <USERFS3F%mts.rpi.edu@itsgw.rpi.edu>
Subject:  RE: Arpanet Archives at RADC-Softvax.arpa
To: Info-Atari16@score.stanford.edu

The archives are maintained by Marc Poulin <Poulin@radc-multics.arpa>
As I recall, the login name is "guest" the password is also "guest" (I think)
This leaves you in the dir COEE:ANNONYMOUS.  Since this is a wollongon ftp
program, you'll probably see it as /coee/anonymous  the atari16 stuff is in
the subdir "ATARI16".  Do a dir after you get in, there will only be two or
three files at the top of the tree.  One of them is the instructions.
  If you have better organization ideas, I'm sure marc would LOVE to hear them.
   Rodney (currently not the archive maintainer 'cause I'm at Rensselaer
Polytechnic Institute having a real fun time.)

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 87 15:47:33 GMT
From: rocky!rokicki@labrea.stanford.edu  (Tomas Rokicki)
Subject: Re: Copyright status of Ctex and Common-Tex: whose copyright ???
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

> % This program is copyright (C) 1982 by D. E. Knuth; all rights are reserved
> % Copying of this file is authorized only if (1) you are D. E. Knuth, or if
> % (2) you make absolutely no changes to your copy. (The WEB system provides
> % for alterations via an auxiliary file; the master file should stay intact.
>
> How do they expect to enforce the 'no changes' section of this copyright?
> Are they going to checksum each version that they find?  Are they going
> to drag someone into court because their Pascal compiler makes an altered
> copy of TeX by rewriting it in assembler?  Do they really think that someone
> won't edit the source to get it to compile on their compiler?

Please, give Don a bit more credit than that.  First of all, the Pascal
compiler's transformation into assembly creates a file which is not a
copy of the original, and it is also a necessary step to get the program
to work on a machine.  Secondly, as the message above states, the WEB
system allows you to make any necessary changes in a small auxillary
file.  The WEB system's macro processor allows global changes to be
stated once, and the program is written so as to isolate those system
dependent changes.  This also allows you to update your version of TeX
simply by getting the new master copy and using the same auxillary file
with your local changes.

And, no, nobody is going to checksum each version they find.  Rather,
no one may distribute a version of TeX that does not fit the
following three criteria:

    1.  It must pass a standard validation suite called
        `trip', with identical results to the master
        copy.  This test suite exercises all of the
        lines in the code except a few seriously
        fatal error messages, including the limitations
        of the program.
    2.  It work reasonably well and identicallly on
        `normal' documents (which trip certainly is
        not.)
    3.  The implementer must be happy with his
        implementation.

    Only (1) and (2) of the above can be tested, but if a
version is found that violates either of these, and is called
TeX, its distribution will be stopped.

                        -tom

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 87 14:57:06 EDT
From: John Turnbull <051332%UOTTAWA.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Subject:      Coming up for OXYGEN
To: Info-Atari16 <info-atari16@score.stanford.edu>

Has anybody managed to UUDECODE the digitized music program OXYGEN from
ATARINET?  The four parts of the UUENCODED file are something in excess
of 790K.  I can't even manage to stick the four parts together without
running out of memory on my lowly 1040.  I have even contemplated
jumping in with a disk editor  and spotwelding the files together by
dickering with the FAT and DIRECTORY (on a backup disk).  Is there a
better way?  Is it all worth it?  BTW I have a monochrome system.  Is
it going to work?  Thanx in advance.  /JT


John Turnbull,          NetNorth: 051332@uottawa
30 Somerset Ave,        BITNET:   051332@uottawa
Dept. of Biology,       ARPAnet:  051332%uottawa.bitnet@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Univ. of Ottawa,        UUCP:     ...!psuvax1!051332%uottawa.BITNET
Ottawa,  Ontario,       JANET:    051332%uottawa@rl.earn
CANADA,  K1N 6N5.       ICBM:     45 25' 33'' N  75 39' 05'' W

------------------------------

Date: 29 Sep 87 20:33:24 GMT
From: linus!philabs!sbcs!lean@husc6.harvard.edu  (Lean L. Loh)
Subject: MJC compiler: 'bug'
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

  Another similar 'bug' in the MJC lib.c library.  The routine 'putc' should
be moved down to a spot after the routine 'dopf'.  The author of the compiler
has very kindly contacted me and here's some info:
========================================================
  The order things appear in *libraries* is
significant.  The assembler/linker makes a single pass over the libs
(everything after the "-l" in the linker line) picking up all objects
(global data or functions) used but not yet defined.  The regular files (the
stuff preceding the "-l") has no constraints on what comes first.
=========================================================
 The author has been working on floats, but hasn't been satisfied with
results.   If anyone has any source code / textbooks on that subject,
please let me know so I may refer them to the author (per his request).
Also any PD floating point package????
 Thanks again, Mark.

........lean
--
CSNET: lean@sbcs.csnet
ARPA: lean%suny-sb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
UUCP: {allegra, hocsd, philabs, ogcvax}!sbcs!lean

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 87 22:08:07 GMT
From: ptsfa!hoptoad!dasys1!schuster@ames.arpa  (Michael Schuster)
Subject: Re: magic sac info wanted
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <5468@drutx.ATT.COM> nick@drutx.ATT.COM (SilvaN) writes:
>
>I'd really like to hear from other Magic Sac users that are willing to share
>information about any problems, software incompatibilities, features, etc.
>associated with the magic sac. So far, I'm quite happy with it, although I
>do see some problems. Beats giving my money to Apple.

This product gets more amazing with every revision. The degree of support
offered by Data Pacific (a small company, mind you) is exceptional.
The new Magic Sac (v4.36 up) is so Mac compatible that it is getting
rather difficult to crash. Users have reported running software for
multi-hour sessions without a single hitch. The illusion that you
are really running a Mac becomes more real all the time. This is a
first class product.


--
l\  /l'   _  Mike Schuster          {sun!hoptoad,cmcl2!phri}!dasys1!schuster
l \/ lll/(_  Big Electric Cat       schuster@dasys1.UUCP
l    lll\(_  New York, NY USA       DELPHI,GEnie:MSCHUSTER  CIS:70346,1745

------------------------------

Date:       Thu, 01 Oct 87 10:18:26 BST
From: Keith Wolstenholme <KEITH%SYSD.SALFORD.AC.UK@forsythe.stanford.edu>
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Subject:    Atari Transputer Info

The currrent issue of Personal Computer World (the nearest thing the UK
to Byte) contains more info on the Atari/Perihelion Transputer development.
Apparently, Atari actually arranged for Guy Kewney to meet with Perihelion !

Briefly, a Transputer is a 32 bit microprocessor designed by the UK
company, Inmos. It has two especially important features:

      - it uses a reduced (fast) instruction set (RISC technology)

      - it was designed to easily interwork, in parallel, with other
        Transputers

The T800 version of the Transputer also contains a floating point
processor (I believe, working in parallel with the main processor) and
4 Kbytes of very fast on chip memory.

There is an "official" contract between Atari and Perihelion, no details of
this are forthcoming but the gist of it is that Atari has the rights to the
machine and Perihelion retain rights to the Helios operating system. Atari
will then license Helios from Perihelion.

The machine is to be provided as an upgrade to the ST and as a stand-alone
box about the size of a Mega-ST. The PCW coverage is claiming the single
Transputer machine will be 10 times as powerful as an IBM AT (more if
measuring floating point operations).

"The key aim will be to make genuine animation possible at very high
resolution" (Whatever that means !).

The system will support probably the most important feature of the
Transputer, that is you will be able to add additional Transputers
either as a LAN of Atari Transputer systems, or as a multi-processor
machine.

The PCW writer expects "1 Mbyte of screen memory driven by a bit
blitter, and 4 Mbytes of system memory, upgradeable to 64 Mbytes" (he
infers that this capacity will be supported in the system box !)

Finally, he reports that Atari are planning to run a seminar (where ?)
towards the end of the year explaining in detail what the machine will do
and how to exploit it.

As to the aim of pricing this machine at around 1000 pounds ($1600),
another article I have seen makes me believe that this might be possible
sometime in '88. A Transputer board (20MHz T800, 2Mbytes memory, Occam
compiler) is being introduced by a company called "Microway" in
September, price 1750 pounds. With the bulk-buying power of Atari,
who knows ?

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 87 21:32:42 GMT
From: nwd@j.cc.purdue.edu  (Daniel Lawrence)
Subject: Re: "microemacs"
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <5016@utah-cs.UUCP> sandra@utah-cs.UUCP (Sandra J Loosemore) writes:
>Just a reminder that there are several editors for the ST which are all
>confusingly called "microemacs".  There is Dave Conroy's original
>version, the one that calls itself version 3.8 (or is it 3.9 now?), and
>one which used to be called MicroGnuEmacs, and is now called MG.

>So which is best?  I'm currently the support person for the ST version
>of MG, so I'm most familiar with that.  It's based on Dave Conroy's
>version, and is generally smaller and less featurized than the 3.8
>"microemacs".  The key bindings and function names are more compatible
>with GNU.  I've heard reports that some of the earlier versions of 3.X
>were very buggy, while MG seems to be very robust.
>

>-Sandra Loosemore
>sandra@cs.utah.edu, sandra@utah-cs.uucp

Greetings,
    I don't want to turn this into a defensive note... but if I
don't speek up for this, no one will.  I started working with Dave
Conroy's emacs as well (thanx dave!) and have been steadily working on
MicroEMACS 3.x (now 3.9) about 20 hours a week for two years.

    The releases I have made have generally been in good shape, and
have gotten a good reception. Some other people have released modified
versions that have not always been in as good shape. The earlier
versions of MicroEMACS did not have as many features as the current, or
as complete a command language, but they have always been fairly solid.

    The current versions .... MicroEMACS 3.9 and MicroSPELL 1.0 are
availible on my BBS system and version 3.9a is likely to appear on
USENET in the near future (better ST support).

    MG is a very good program for people whom are used to using GNU
emacs on mainframes and wish to have something that works the same way
on their PC.  Sandra and many others have done a good job of emulating
the basic commands and functionality of GNU.  MicroEMACS is more for
people who either work mainly on the micro, or on a number of different
machines.  I have concentrated on portability and the ability to
customize the editor through a comprehensive command language.

            Daniel Lawrence        (317) 742-5153
            UUCP:    {ihnp4!pur-ee!}j.cc.purdue.edu!nwd
            ARPA:    nwd@j.cc.purdue.edu
            FIDO:    201/2 The Programmer's Room (317) 742-5533

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End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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