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From:         Info-Atari16 Digest <Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU>
Subject:      Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #6
To:           TODD KRISSEL <VY7379@BINGVAXA>

Info-Atari16 Digest   Wednesday, January  6, 1988   Volume 88 : Issue 6

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

                  Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
                Re: A different view on multitasking.
                  Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
                        Re: CP/M Z80 Emulator
                     Re: drivers for new printers
                      Re: BMS controller package
                        Re: Hard disk boot???
                    Re: Atari's Marketing Approach
        spectrum 512, MWC, BDT MT C-shell, Alpaha Mega Disk(?)
                            MarsPort Help
                       Text -> Speech Programs

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Date: 25 Dec 87 09:30:50 GMT
From: ucsdhub!hp-sdd!ncr-sd!crash!gryphon!pnet02!sbauer@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu  (Scott
 Bauer)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

One point that has been a bit overlooked by the Desk Accessory/Pop-Up Utility
crowd -- why be forced to "make do" with the limitations that a Desk Accessory
imposes? NOT to suggest that the Desk Accessory are not useful, or that the
programming done by their authors is somehow lacking; what I DO mean is that
in a multi-tasking environment I have my CHOICE of any number of full featured
programs, all of which run together (within the limits of my systems
resources, of course.) So I can use the same word processor and outline
processor and spreadsheet and etc. that I always use, rather than one that can
run as a Desk Accessory (and thus is used mainly for just that reason.)

Scott Bauer
-----------
UUCP: {ihnp4!crash, hplabs!hp-sdd!crash}!gryphon!pnet02!sbauer
INET: sbauer@pnet02.CTS.COM

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Date: 25 Dec 87 19:13:57 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!lharris@uunet.uu.net  (Leonard Harris)
Subject: Re: A different view on multitasking.
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

When I started working as an advisor at UofT,  TSO was the main system besides
batch card jobs through JCL.  Back then if you mentioned a Micro, you were laued
at and told they could never do what a BIG machine could do.  Too bad I have
to use unix on a this SUN toy now instead of a 370  !!
Whats this have to do with multi-tasking?  I'm not sure but the whole argument
seems kinda stupid.  Buy what you want.  I have an atari for games and an IBM
for programming and cad work.  It would be really nice to have a multitasking
Sun 3  but I can get by on less.  If multitasking would force(?) programmers
to produce better code then I'm all for it !

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 16:55:39 GMT
From: ems!nis!stag!trb@UMN-CS.ARPA  ( Todd Burkey )
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <7909@e.ms.uky.edu> david@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- Resident E-mail
 Hack) writes:
>In article <8155@prls.UUCP> gardner@prls.UUCP (Robert Gardner) writes:
>>I'm still waiting to see if someone can come up with a use for TRUE
>>multitasking that a typical home user would find very handy but that
>>cannot be satisfied by a simple 'carousel' approach. There probably
>>are some, especially with message-passing, etc., but none have been
>>posted yet (except for people waiting for their compilers to finish --
>>they just need faster integrated compilers, though :)

Agreed...even my worst case program (hdscan) takes less than a minute
to compile, so I rarely even have the urge to pop it into the
background...

> ... And yes, I know that background print spooler gadgets can
>run on single task DOS's ... I've seen 'em in CP/M, RT-11, Mess-DOS,
>and many many others.  But I've never been convinced that they
>ever ran cleanly.

???Why not??? I have less trouble with the automatic print spoolers on
my PC clone and ST than I do on the Unix boxes at work. I can
prioritize jobs, edit stuff in the queue, etc on the ST version, but
those hacks are mostly fluff and rarely used...besides, I have seen
those handy little standalone print spoolers going for under $50
nowadays, so that may be a better solution in the long run...

>I'm thinking ahead some time into the future when we'll have
>ISDN running everywhere ... In order to handle network communications
>cleanly we'll need to have multi-tasking.

Umm, by the time we have ISDN running everywhere, our current
computers will probably be dust. By then, most of us will probably be
running some variant of Unix on our machines if we want to properly
utilize ISDN (i.e. we will have BIG drives, some form of USENET access
...which I can't quite picture even two years from now, since we are
running about 28MBytes of messages/week now..., very high speed
modems, etc.)

>[There are] also things like mail daemons
>and such that recieve e-mail while you're asleep (or away
>or whatever).

UUPC seems to work fine on the ST and I have several STadel (ST
citadel) boards that poll my Unix box every couple of hours for uucp
mail and the comp.sys.atari.st sections. I am sure there are a lot of
Amiga systems doing the same (I recall that UUPC came out for the
Amiga and Citadel is also running on the Amiga).

>For right now?  Well, how about killing run-away processes?

On the ST OS-9 or the Multi-tasking C shell has the standard ability
to do this...And on the Amiga or the ST, you can always hit reset to
kill everything, but still keep the things that were out on RAM
drives...(I used this feature a lot on both the Amiga and the ST in
the early days of using C compilers that were released too soon.)

I agree somewhat with Dave Meile on this discussion/argument. In the
long run, the average user of a popular computer is not the 'BBS'-type
or a person that needs anything more than a few utilities in the
form of desk accessories on top of an application. Unfortunately, the
IBM PC and the Mac have gained the 'average' user market, to date.
Those of us with Amiga's and Atari ST's are either technical enough to
appreciate and use the special features of the respective computer, or
we had very, very persuasive friends who convinced us that the
Amiga/ST was the best computer. The 'average' user is still the person
that just buys a Mac or PC for a very specific purpose (usually for
writing memos or doing spreadsheets in a business environment). They
may run Lightning/Thunder (real time spelling checkers on the PC/ST)
in a pseudo background manner, and have a ton of desk accessories or
pop up tools, but they rarely go in for the increased complexity that
a multi-tasking environment like DesqView offers on the PC. Even the
carrousel approach (there, I just multi-tasked and asked my wife for
a spelling check...it can also be spelled carousel) is somewhat
confusing to people, but I have seen secretaries fall in love with the
carrousel programs on the Mac and the ST...although not on the PC version
for some reason.

  -Todd Burkey
   trb@stag.UUCP

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 06:55:05 GMT
From: ems!nis!stag!trb@umn-cs.arpa  ( Todd Burkey )
Subject: Re: CP/M Z80 Emulator
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <104@mccc.UUCP> pjh@mccc.UUCP (Peter J. Holsberg) writes:
>I'm looking for a CP/M - Z80 emulator that will run on a 680x0-based
>computer.  Please email if you know of such a beast.  Thx.

There is a very nice PD one for the ST...If I remember right, the docs
for it seemed to indicate that the original 'port' source would work
on any 68000 computer (it has been over a year since I played with
it, so the name of the company that wrote it escapes me). Atari did
put this out as a PD disk, so maybe Neil can help? If not, I'm sure
you could get the disk from your local Atari club...

I recall getting about 1.5MHz to 3Mz throughput on most of the
programs I had from the ATR8000 days...things like Perfect Writer,
Wordstar, Turbo Pascal, etc all worked fine. I even used some of my
wifes software that I copied over from her Geneva portable and it
ran fine (but emulating a 80 char by 8 line display).

  -Todd Burkey
   trb@stag.UUCP

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 06:43:29 GMT
From: phri!dasys1!mzyla@nyu.edu  (Martin Zyla)
Subject: Re: drivers for new printers
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <2125@cup.portal.com> Randy_Captain-Magic_Holcomb@cup.portal.com
 writes:
>I just got an NEC Pinwriter P2200 for $400, and I think it's a killer little
>printer. I did have some fun trying to track down a utility that could do a
>good screen dump (ALT-HELP) but I did find one on GEnie (Delphi?) that works
>well when you tell the driver it's a P7. (and the P2200 allows you to kill the
>tractor feed to, for single-sheet feeding. Nice touch.)
>
>Randy Holcomb - Contributing Editor/Computer Shopper

I'm glad to see that someone else has discovered this gem of a machine. Around
this neck of the woods (New York) it seems to be selling well and users marvel
at the power, quality and accessories of a printer that sells for a relatively
meager $350 to $400. I've used several drivers and wound up with a variety of
screen dump sizes but all high quality. Speaking of high quality, if you're
into Desktop Publishing this machine will make you think twice about spending
all that money on a laser printer.



                   I\  /I ____________________________________
Martin Zyla        I \/ I     /
Big Electric Cat   I    I    /   {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri!dasys1!mzyla
New York, NY, USA  I    I   /         {bellcore,cmcl2}!cucard!dasys1!mzyla
                   I    I  /         GEnie:mzyla DELPHI:gmz CIS:74216,1372

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Date: 26 Dec 87 03:23:43 GMT
From: ravi@cs.duke.edu  (Ravi Subrahmanyan)
Subject: Re: BMS controller package
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

>] I have the BMS controller.  It works fine (once we found the bugs but
>] that was almost a year ago).  ...
>
>What were the bugs?
>If I were to buy such a board, I would probably *never* find the bugs.
>

    I've been using that package for a year, and the only bug I've
encountered was in the clock setting software, which would cause the
clock to freak in February.. it was quite amusing actually, and it
was fixed immediately (Chris would actually tell you the location to
patch in the executable if you didnt want to wait for him to send you
a new disk).  No other bugs as far as I know,

                                -ravi

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Date: 24 Dec 87 17:54:21 GMT
From: nuchat!uhnix1!uhnix2!uace0@uunet.uu.net  (Michael B. Vederman)
Subject: Re: Hard disk boot???
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

The problem you have with holding down the alt-ctrl-shift may have to do with
WHEN you hold down the keys.  If you bootup with! the keys down, then it will
not work with the new ROMs.
Try turning on the machine (or resetting) wait a second, then hold down the
keys.  This should work.
Don't use GEMBOOT with th[e new ROMs, use foldrxxx.prg instead.

Also, I had the same[ problem with the message about a non-supported ROM
version.  Ignore the message, the driver is actually installed, and works
just fine.

- Mike
--
#-----------------------------------------------------# University (of Houston)
# It is morally wrong to let a sucker keep his money. # Atari Computer
#-----------------------------------------------------# Enthusiasts (UACE)
Use Atarinet: for help, interactively send a message to UH-INFO@UHUPVM1

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 18:23:44 GMT
From: nuchat!uhnix1!uhnix2!uace0@uunet.uu.net  (Michael B. Vederman)
Subject: Re: Atari's Marketing Approach
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Okay, how can you change Atari's image?  Does it matter?  Sure, more advertise-
ments would be nice, but what benefit do we, the curreniet owners of STs derive
from that? Perhaps it would be a boost to our own egos having more commmercials
on TV.  I mean who wants to own a machine that doesn't receive alot of press?
In actuality, I doubt that more TV advertising would do too much good, other
than allowing us to  say "I saw the ad five times in one hour," or "Did you
see the ads last night?"

Ask yourself this - how many other computer companies make game machines?
Answer - NONE!
Not Apple, not IBM, not Commodore, no one.
Therefore, Atari is stuck, because they do currently sell game machines.

This is not neccessarily bad, but more advertising, I beleive will only give
us current owners a shot in the arm.  Remembere, actions speak louder than
words, and no advertising can boost sales if you don't have an exciting line
of products to sell, and new products on the way.  If Atari can produce, then
they zwill be successful.  The ABAQ is exciting, but may come out too late to
'steal' the show.  Is it important for Atari to come out with products first?
For us owners, we certainly would take a lot of pride in the company if we
were owners of a$ computer from a company that was 'on the leading edge' and
delivered prroducts before anyone else, but what real benefit do we get from
that other than feeding our egos.
So, before you go  complaing to Neil, ask who will really benefit.  Is this
'commercial wars.'  Are we feeling left out?  We have a good machine that is
exactl[y what we paid for.  What more do you want?

Flame me at this address, if you want.  I just get tired of complaining about
immaterial things.  If you wanna complain, complain about how GEM is a closed
operating system that must be hacked at to figure out (that's GEM, not TOS).

My opinions are my own, and do not neccessarily reflect our users' group,
company, university, or any living being.

- Mike

--
#-----------------------------------------------------# University (of Houston)
# It is morally wrong to let a sucker keep his money. # Atari Computer
#-----------------------------------------------------# Enthusiasts (UACE)
Use Atarinet: for help, interactively send a message to UH-INFO@UHUPVM1

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 00:18:00 GMT
From: linus!philabs!sbcs!nyit!bryan@husc6.harvard.edu  (Bryan Althaus)
Subject: spectrum 512, MWC, BDT MT C-shell, Alpaha Mega Disk(?)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

I only had my 1040ST for a week before the drive went and I'm still
waiting for it to come back so in the meantime I thought I'd ask a few
questions.

I've been reading about Spectrum 512 in Antics START magazine and was wondering
if anyone has disassembled the code and found out how they put 48 colors per
scan line?  Does this code work for putting more colors per scan line
in medium rez? Also could anyone out there who owns Spectrum 512 tell me how
like/dislike this product?

I plan on buying it just for the feature of 512 colors but I was just wondering
how good a paint program this is compared to Degas & NeoChrome.

About how they do it, Spectrum owns the rights to Spectrum 512 not the ability
to put 48 colors per scan line. I feel Spectrum has done something that I
didn't think was possible and they deserve all the customers they can get, it's
just that I hope the how's and why's of the scan line trick become public
knowledge, for a person shouldn't have to buy the program just to be able to
have 48 colors per scan line on their ST's.

I'm currently using Mark Williams C with Beckemeyers MT C-shell and together
they make a pretty powerful programming environment. I was wondering if anyone
knows how much temp space both programs use? I set a ramdisk up and put the
most used commands from MT C-shell into it (ls, cd etc.) and was wondering how
much bigger I should make the ramdisk to hold the /tmp area which MWC & BDT
MT C-shell use for temporary storage.

Also while talking about ramdisks has anyone bought the Mega disk(?) by Alpha.
It's suppose to be a 1 meg. ram cartridge which plugs into the cartrige port
on the Atari and gives you the ability to have an 800k ramdisk + 200k printer
spooler or two 400k ramdisks and the printer spooler. Also included for $299 is
a power supply so that after you turn your computer off your data is still
intact, sort of like a mini Hard Drive. For the price it sounds good, if
anyone has bought one could you tell me  how you like it and also how could
I get MT C-shell to recognize the 200k printer spooler?


                Thanks in advance

            Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to all

                Bryan Althaus
                        N.Y.I.T. - Computer Graphics Laboratory
                UUCP: ...!philabs!nyit!bryan  (bryan@nyit.UUCP)

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Date: 21 Dec 87 00:32:43 GMT
From: munnari!natmlab!tasis!paul@uunet.uu.net  (Paul Stevenson)
Subject: MarsPort Help
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

"I'm the sentry
5 pairs for entry..."

OK - can anyone tell me how to get through the door?

thanks in advance.
                Paul Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: 22 Dec 87 01:50:38 GMT
From: munnari!natmlab!basser!metro!pta!teti!nswitgould!tony@uunet.uu.net  (Tony
 McGrath)
Subject: Text -> Speech Programs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

I am making this inquiry on behalf of a partially sighted person
who has recently purchased an Atari ST.

What he is looking for is a Text -> Speech conversion program that
would allow him to hear the contents of a text file. I know that there
is a simple speech program available called ST-TALK that performs this
function, but only on text typed from the keyboard.

Does anybody know of a similar program that could read a file of text
and then speak it back? Are there sources available for the aforementioned
ST-TALK that might be modified to make it work on text files?

Please reply to me by mail, unless, of course, you think it is important
enough to post.

Tony McGrath
tony@nswitgould.OZ

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End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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