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From:     Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #13
To:       PETCHER@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
          DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest   Monday, January 11, 1988   Volume 88 : Issue 13

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

                          Re: eproms burners
                 Re: graphic file interchange format
               Re: questions Re: Hard drives for the ST
                  Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
                  Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
                  Re: VCR -> Atari ST color monitor
                  Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
                    Re: Multitasking - A nightmare
                           Thanks (Cont'd.)
                              Interrupt
                        Alice Pascal for sale
                           need memory test
                       Magic Sac w/ 128K Roms?
               Re: questions Re: Hard drives for the ST

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 30 Dec 87 09:43:32 GMT
From: portal!atari!neil@uunet.uu.net  (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: eproms burners
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <903@PSUECLB>, kap@psueclb.BITNET writes:

>   I hate to interupt this fasinating discussion on multi-tasking

Please do.

> I need to find an eprom burner to use with the ST.

Call Michtron.  They have some which are reputed to be lightning quick.
Reach Michtron in Pontiac, MI, at (313) 334-5700.

--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

Date: 31 Dec 87 20:57:06 GMT
From: portal!atari!neil@uunet.uu.net  (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: graphic file interchange format
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <782@daisy.UUCP>, turner@daisy.UUCP (D'arc Angel) writes:
>
> Is there a simgle format or at least a conversion program that will
> let me use a picture file generated on a pc on a mac or atari.st or
> any other permutattion of machines ????

There is a single format developed by CompuServe called GIF.  The complete
docs are available there in the Graphics SIG.

For the ST, there's a shareware program called PICSWITCH that converts all
ST formats and resolutions, and is also compatible with Amiga and Mac
formats.  (Is there a PC format?)  PICSWITCH is up to version 7.  It should
be on the Atari BBS (I know version 6 was there last time I looked).
Version 7 is on GEnie for sure, because that's where I got my copy.
--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

Date: 2 Jan 88 15:31:10 GMT
From: sgi!daisy!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: questions Re: Hard drives for the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

From article <3268@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, by
 braner@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (braner):
> []
>
> I wonder: is the 18 inch limit on the length of the cable connecting
> the ST to the Atari SH204 hard disk (stated in the user manual) the
> real technical limit?  Would be very nice to have a, say, 3 feet cable.
> (I hate fan and motor noise.)
>

not at all, i built an extender to my cable (using flat cable to minimize
resistance) and have never had any problems with it. I's say the cable with
extension is 3 to 4 feet long.

--
Laissez les bons temps rouler                     -  Queen Ida
..{decwrl:ucbvax}!imagen!atari!daisy!turner (James M. Turner)
Daisy Systems, 700 E. Middlefield Rd, P.O. Box 7006,
Mountain View CA 94039-7006.                          (415)960-0123

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jan 88 03:47:30 GMT
From: mike@ames.arpa  (Mike Smithwick)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Distribution: na
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif.

In article <3243@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu> davidli@umn-cs.UUCP (Dave Meile) writes:
>
>The "average user" would be satisfied with a desk accessory, while the

Just who is this "average user" by the way?? Is there some ANSI standard
committee which is formulating the official "SU 88" specs
Computer Companies are supposed to follow??

>I find that I get to do many little things around the house while I'm in
>a terminal session.  I can catch up on my reading, prepare dinner, change
>record albums, everything except un-ARC files I'm downloading (which is
>about the only thing I'd do if I owned a multi-tasking system).
>
>Face it, most of us are (for the most part) linear beings.

We are huh? Right now I'm cooking dinner, typing on my computer and
listening to Prairie Home Companion on the radio. Sounds like multi-tasking
to me.

Don't forget that users who are running a single program could very well
be multi-tasking and not know it. For instance, color-cycling in
Graphic Craft spawned a subtask and operated independently. I believe that
Word Perfect's printer module is a separate program from the editor, at
least on the Amiga.



--
                   *** mike (powered by M&Ms) smithwick ***
"if peanut oil comes from peanuts, and olive oil comes from
olives, where does baby oil come from?"  ---  Lily Tomlin
[discalimer : nope, I don't work for NASA, I take full blame for my ideas]

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jan 88 04:38:13 GMT
From: mike@ames.arpa  (Mike Smithwick)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

[". . .which hung in the air, precisely the way bricks don't"]

In article <3279@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu> davidli@umn-cs.UUCP (Dave Meile) writes:
>
> But I still insist that, for the non "power user" there's no need for it.
>
>-- Dave Meile

      "well, I for one know, that the 'average' person just
       doesn't Need a telephone!" - latter 19th century

          "The 'average' person just doesn't need a disk drive,
       a cassette recorder will do just fine" - 1979

          "Well, when we were designing this thing, Jay asked
       'So, how much memory do you think people will put
       on this thing?' We all looked at each other, and said
       that NO ONE would ever have any need for more than 512K.
       So he gave the graphic chips 19 pin addressing."

                Dale Luck (I think) explaining the
                origins of Chip memory.


--
                   *** mike (powered by M&Ms) smithwick ***
"if peanut oil comes from peanuts, and olive oil comes from
olives, where does baby oil come from?"  ---  Lily Tomlin
[discalimer : nope, I don't work for NASA, I take full blame for my ideas]

------------------------------

Date: 2 Jan 88 18:52:39 GMT
From: nuchat!uhnix1!uhnix2!uace0@uunet.uu.net  (Michael B. Vederman)
Subject: Re: VCR -> Atari ST color monitor
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <6325@drutx.ATT.COM> jhs@drutx.ATT.COM (ShoreJ) writes:
>in article <3257@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, engst@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu
(Adam C. Engst) says:
>>
>> I'm curious, does anyone know of a
>
>No, but I have heard of a

But I think what Adam is looking for is a--
#-----------------------------------------------------# University (of Houston)
# It is morally wrong to let a sucker keep his money. # Atari Computer
#-----------------------------------------------------# Enthusiasts (UACE)
Use Atarinet: for help, interactively send a message to UH-INFO@UHUPVM1

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jan 88 08:43:50 GMT
From: ihnp4!alberta!auvax!rwa@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Ross Alexander)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <3805@ames.arpa>, mike@ames.arpa (Mike Smithwick) writes:
> In article <3279@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu> davidli@umn-cs.UUCP (Dave Meile) writes:
> > But I still insist that, for the non "power user" there's no need for it.
    [ several examples of short-sighted thinking ommited for brevity]
>           "Well, when we were designing this thing, Jay asked
>        'So, how much memory do you think people will put
>        on this thing?' We all looked at each other, and said
>        that NO ONE would ever have any need for more than 512K.
>        So he gave the graphic chips 19 pin addressing."
>                 Dale Luck (I think) explaining the
>                 origins of Chip memory.

Pinouts on chips are not exactly free; they have a definite
manufacturing cost and per-connection reliability implications.
Engineers spend quite a bit of time juggling this scarce and valuable
resource (the pins) amongst all the possible things that they might
wish to ship in and out of the package.  Hence all those bl**dy
multiplexed address/data schemes on cpu's (almost anything from Intel
last time I looked), multiplexed addresses on DRAMS, kluges to
redefine pins according to system configuration (Intel again, at
least on the 808[68] parts), and ghods know how many other egregious
hacks over the years.  I mean, most engineers understand the KISS*
princple, and they don't design these horrible interfaces just for
the joy of complexity [well, most of them, anyway; I have dark
suspicions...].

So let's not be _too_ critical of Jay - your other examples were
much more convincing.  My pet peeve is that the Atari people didn't
put a base-and-limit register into the big glue chip that controls
the memory array(s) on the ST.  If I had base and limit registers, I
could get true, transparent multitasking up on the ST (which, of
course, Dave Meile could ignore; that's his privilege).

--
Ross Alexander,
Sr. Systems Programmer & bottlewasher @ Athabasca University,
alberta!auvax!rwa

* KISS == Keep It Simple, Stupid!

------------------------------

Date: 2 Jan 88 14:22:20 GMT
From: phri!dasys1!andrew@nyu.edu  (Andrew Huie)
Subject: Re: Multitasking - A nightmare
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <2406@dasys1.UUCP>, larryw@dasys1.UUCP (Winston Lawrence) writes:
>
>   I think that this discussion is a little off-base in many ways. Would this
 be going on if we were debating the benefits of disk versus cassette storage?
>   You will be hard pressed to find ANY microcomputer of recent vintage that
>does NOT multitask to some extent. The Atari 8bits use multitasking. The ANTIC
>CPU interrupts the 6502 chip to generate the video. Smart programs turn OFF the
>multitasking during cpu intensive stuff (compiles for example) to speed things

I think you're confusing interrupt processing with full multitasking. One
question you can ask yourself is: Can I run more than one program from the
same microprocessor? Or can I interchange programs between processors?
The answer: NO. Each chip is only capable of dealing with one task at a time,
and only a task specific to that chip. A real multitasking machine can have
the microprocessor (e.g. 68000) deal with more than one task on a revolving
basis, using priorities to see who gets more time, without having to wait for
each task to finish completely before starting the next one. If the computer
isn't too slow or weighted down (with tasks), this can appear to the user as if
each task is running at exactly the same time.

>works in a similar manner for the sound output. Disk controllers use dedicated
>chips (and DMA) to do their thing while the CPU does its thing. ON PCs, IRMA
>boards handle screen i/o and updates IN THE BACKGROUND, regardless of what you
>are doing in DOS. While you might split hairs as to whether this is
 multitasking,
> parallel processing, or networking. Its a moot point. Multitasking is real,
> is here, and has been a feature on most micros for the last six or seven
 years.
If you want to call interrupt processing multitasking, then of course computers
have had it for many years, but it definitely isn't the kind that's going to,
by itself, allow you to run more than one of your favorite applications at the
same time.

>
> --
> Winston Lawrence                 {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri\
> Big Electric Cat Public Unix           {bellcore,cmcl2}!cucard!dasys1!larryw
> New York, NY, USA                               {sun}!hoptoad/

------------------------------

From: AB084%DK0RRZK0.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1988   16:50:10   CET
To: INFO-ATARI16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: Thanks (Cont'd.)

To be very clear: I meant this "Does Joe Average Need Multitasking?" thing.
 ME

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jan 88 20:28:23 GMT
From: pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!dle@cad.Berkeley.EDU  (Duy Le)
Subject: Interrupt
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

How do I force an interrupt in C and jump to an interrupt handler which
is written in C also?  Thank you for your information.



Please send mail to dle@cory.Berkeley.EDU


Duy

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jan 88 19:41:30 GMT
From: dalcs!aucs!870646c@uunet.uu.net  (barry comer)
Subject: Alice Pascal for sale
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Since I am now not using my version of Alice(The Personal Pascal), I am looking
for someone to buy it from me. It also includes a free upgrade card for when
an upgrade comes out. I am asking $75.00 CDN. for it, at last check it listed
for about $80.00 US(about $120.00 CDN). It is a very good version of Pascal,
it supports all the normal things like windows, GEM etc.
If interested you can reply to this msg. or call me at 1-(902)-542-2312.
later
Barry

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jan 88 16:57:00 GMT
From: cca!mirror!datacube!ftw@husc6.harvard.edu
Subject: need memory test
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Anyone have/know of a good memory testing program for the ST?  I just
put the Tech Specialities board in my machine this weekend, and it
seems to run fine.  The memory test they provide is a joke; it is in
BASIC, and simply does peeks and looks for 255 to come back, indicating
a bus-error.  Thanks in advance.



                Farrell T. Woods

Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group    4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960
VOICE:    617-535-6644;    FAX: (617) 535-5643;  TWX: (710) 347-0125
INTERNET: ftw@datacube.COM
UUCP: {rutgers, ihnp4, mirror}!datacube!ftw

"OS/2 -- Half an operating system"

------------------------------

Date: 26 Dec 87 04:00:03 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!clan!scs!phil@uunet.uu.net  (Phil Trubey)
Subject: Magic Sac w/ 128K Roms?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

This is probably a nieve question, but, ...

Is there a reason that a Magic Sac using 128K ROMs hasn't appeared?
Has it to do with 128K ROM availability, or is it something else?

Phil Trubey
School of Computer Science, Carleton University

UUCP:   phil@scs.uucp   (...!watmath!clan!scs!phil)
BITNET: ptrubey@carleton
CDNnet: phil@scs.carleton.cdn

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jan 88 16:35:14 GMT
From: tektronix!sequent!mntgfx!dclemans@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Dave Clemans)
Subject: Re: questions Re: Hard drives for the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

> Does anybody have a disassembly of AHDI.PRG?  I have a strange bug, and
> suspect that AHDI.PRG fiddles with high RAM.  Could that be?  Is there
> an alternative driver program for the Atari HD?

There are at least two alternatives; the Supra driver and the ICD
driver.  Both have been freely distributed on Compuserve.

> PS: how can I persuade PC-Ditto to read partitions D: and E: from inside
> MS-DOS?  I am trying out PCD 3.0 on 1040ST, mono, SH204 HD, and _did_ put
> "device=pc_dhd.sys" at top of config.sys.  "Dir d:" prints either garbage or
> an empty list of files.  The PCD docs say that reformatting the HD is _not_
> required (unless you want to autoboot MS-DOS from the HD, in which case you
> must let MS-DOS reformat partition C:).  Partition C reads OK (and I did
> not reformat it).

From messages on Compuserve, there are apparently some fields in the
boot sector that are "don't care" to the Atari driver, but are looked at
by IBM drivers.  Avant-garde is distributing a patch program via Compuserve
(and presumably others) that zaps these fields from the garbage that they
are left at by the Atari formatter into something that MS-DOS approves of.

dgc

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End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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