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From:     Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #8
To:       PETCHER@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
          DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest   Thursday, January  7, 1988   Volume 88 : Issue 8

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

                         Re: ST Drive Change?
                       DG Terminal Emulators...
                      Re: BMS controller package
               Re: ST software available for children?
                    VCR -> Atari ST color monitor
                           Re: Observations
                          IBM Drives with ST
                    Re: A defense of Multi-tasking
             Re: about ST disk drives (and media change)
                  Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
                        Re: Hard disk boot???
                        Re: Hard disk boot???
                        Re: big arrays in MW C
                  Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 04:44:06 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Sam_Brian_Gridley@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: ST Drive Change?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Have done it many times myself without encountering any problems.  Even swapped
the SS out of my 520STfm for a DS disk mechanism.  Works great!

------------------------------

Posted-From: The MITRE Corp., Bedford, MA
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu, info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
Subject: DG Terminal Emulators...
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 87 17:56:52 EST
From: jhs@mitre-bedford.ARPA

KOST@TRIUMFCL.BITNET writes...
>
> Does anyone know of a Terminal Emulator for the Data General
> machines, eg. the D-400 series terminal, for the Atari ST.
>

I'd be interested also in such an emulator that ran on the Atari 8-bitters,
if anyone knows about one!

-John Sangster / jhs@mitre-bedford.arpa

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 21:02:00 GMT
From: apollo!weber_w@eddie.mit.edu  (Walt Weber)
Subject: Re: BMS controller package
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <1147@eneevax.UUCP> iarocci@eneevax.umd.edu.UUCP (John Iarocci)
 writes:
>
>Being the owner of two BMS kits (one for a Micropolis 1325 on a 1040, and one
>for a Seagate ST506 on a 520+), I have seen how Berkley Microsystems has
>improved over the last year or so. I think their present-day package is well
>put together and easy to build. I have only had two reservations about the
>kit: 1) The non-standard format used on the disks, and 2) THAT SHORT CORD!!
>
>Until a recent (fairly) Atari Fest in the area, I was under the impression
>that the BMS kit was the only one out there. At this fair, I was introduced
>to ICD, Inc.

I, too, am a VERY SATISFIED customer of BMS.  My opinions of the ICD offering
differ somewhat from yours, however.

I saw ICD's product at the Worcester AtariFest, and while I think they have
an acceptable product, I believe that their methods are less than acceptable.
My local Atari dealer (exclusively Atari for the last 4+ years) tells me that
ICD has been present in the 8-bit marketplace for a considerable time.

My contact at BMS, however, told me that ICD initially contacted BMS with a
great deal of interest in the BMS board, and assured BMS that ICD was not
going to get into that business.  A short while later, ICD released a board
which has a strong resemblance to the BMS board with a few modifications.

Note that I am NOT advocating sole-sourcing of add-ons for the ST line -- I just
do NOT like the idea of an "established" company staying out of the ST
 marketplace
until (or unless) they can piggyback off of the efforts of a fledgling operation
 by
misrepresenting their intentions.

As to your first reservation (above), BMS follows the Atari standard of only
 allowing
4 partitions per drive, while Supra established an "extended format" which
 permits
8 partitions per drive, but is NOT compatible with Atari's AHDI.  ICD follows
 the
Supra extended format.  I think if you go back to Tom Love's excellent article
 in
a back issue of Current Notes you will find that BMS did not have a disk driver
 of
their own, and that users would just use Atari's formatter (format.prg?) and
driver (ahdi.prg).

..walt...

--
Walt Weber               PHONE: (617) 256-6600 x7004
Apollo Computer          GENIE: W.WEBER
Chelmsford, People's Republic of Massachusetts

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 23:37:18 GMT
From: tpg@mitre-bedford.arpa  (Terry P. Gleason)
Subject: Re: ST software available for children?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

LOGO isn't bundled with the ST anymore.  Is it worth buying?  Are
there other better ones available? (My daughter uses LOGO on the Apple
at school.)

Is KIDTALK ($30-$40) a good buy?  For what ages is it appropriate?

Thanks for any advice - T. Gleason (tpg@mbunix)

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 00:24:31 GMT
From: engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu  (Adam C. Engst)
Subject: VCR -> Atari ST color monitor
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

I'm curious, does anyone know of a

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 21:48:26 GMT
From: tektronix!sequent!mntgfx!dclemans@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Dave Clemans)
Subject: Re: Observations
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

> I kinda liked the  "ST World"  that my dealer used to carry, but he
> stopped carrying it a couple of months before he folded.  :-(
> Did the newspaper fold too?  Or did the go out of business becuase my
> dealer no longer carried them?  Or was it the other way around?    ;-)

ST World is apparently going fine; in fact they've now split into
two separate newsletters:
    ST World    mainly reviews and show reports
    ST Informer more general articles, rumors, etc.

They're carried by stores in the Oregon area (B. Dalton's Software Etc.
even carries ST World).

However note that they are not published on a regular schedule; as far
as I can tell they wait until they have enough ads and articles to fill
an issue and then go to the printers/distributors.

dgc

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 06:31:10 GMT
From: unirot!josh@rutgers.edu  (josh cohen)
Subject: IBM Drives with ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

lineaterlineaterlineaterlineater


      Does anyone have the document file on how to hook up an IBM
style drive?  I am attempting to do it here.  I have a tandon TM100
full height drive.  I ripped it out of an old PERCOM setup for the
old ataris.  Has anyone done this?  I see the tricks that atari is
doing with the drive select line but am not quite sure how to cope
with it.
   Somebody help me before I fry my ST....

   Josh Cohen
    HOOK

ARPA   HOOK@aim.rutgers.edu
UUCP   {...}!rutgers!aim.rutgers.edu!hook
BITNET hook%gold.decnet@zodiac
 please me me at the first address.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 18:08:51 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!water!ljdickey@rutgers.edu  (Lee Dickey)
Subject: Re: A defense of Multi-tasking
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <5595@cc5.bbn.COM> denbeste@bbn.COM (Steven Den Beste) writes:
:The original poster of this subject asked if there was a place where
:multi-tasking was "essential". ...
: [ a long and thoughtful article here... ]
:
:Could these be the real reasons behind the original posting? Or maybe just a
:deliberate attempt to stir up trouble?
:
:Steven C. Den Beste,   Bolt Beranek & Newman, Cambridge MA
:denbeste@bbn.com(ARPA/CSNET/UUCP)    harvard!bbn.com!denbeste(UUCP)
:        I don't think BBN cares what I think about this stuff.
:        And that's probably just as well.


Deliberate or not, he certainly did stirr it up!

--
 L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
 ljdickey@watmath.UUCP        UUCP: ...!uunet!watmath!ljdickey
 ljdickey%water@waterloo.edu    ljdickey@watdcs.BITNET
 ljdickey%water%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 17:49:38 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!water!ljdickey@rutgers.edu  (Lee Dickey)
Subject: Re: about ST disk drives (and media change)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Thank you, Alan, for the informative answer, which raises another question...

In article <914@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:
>
>The media-change sensing is done using the write-protect signal from the
>drive.  ...
>
>When a disk is in the "maybe changed" state, the next access (through
>RWABS or maybe Floprd) will check the serial number of the disk in the
>drive.  If it hasn't changed, then the disk hasn't changed, either.
>This is another assupmtion: you should not have two disks with the same
>serial number.
> ...

What is the "serial number" you mention?
I have seen no mention of it before.
I have noticed something called "disk label" that comes up
when I ask it to "SHOW INFO".  Is *that* the "serial number"?

How can I be sure that no two disks have the same serial number?


--
 L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
 ljdickey@watmath.UUCP        UUCP: ...!uunet!watmath!ljdickey
 ljdickey%water@waterloo.edu    ljdickey@watdcs.BITNET
 ljdickey%water%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 07:16:35 GMT
From: marque!gryphon!richard@csd1.milw.wisc.edu  (Richard Sexton)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <1374@uhccux.UUCP> lee@uhccux.UUCP (Greg Lee) writes:
>In article <2673@gryphon.CTS.COM> richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton)
 writes:
>>In article <3256@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu> davidli@umn-cs.UUCP (Dave Meile) writes:
>
>Mr. Sexton's comments don't bear repeating.  It was suggested in another
>news group that he has a net variety of Tourette's syndrome.

Ah yes, but I'm cute and have great legs.

>  Would Dave
>Meile and others in comp.sys.arari.st please accept an apology from
>us amiga folks?

Don't apologize for me you nimrod. I have nothing against ST's or their
owners. But Atari people who blather in comp.sys.amiga about how
the amiga's features are "not needed" are fair game.

If you want to flame amiga's, fine. Do it in comp.sys.not.amiga. Do it
in alt.flame. But do it in this group, and you just may get a rebuttel.
Do it four times and people may get testy.

sig missing in newport beach harbour

Richard [kick butt and take names] Sexton

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 14:54:00 GMT
From: cca!mirror!datacube!ftw@husc6.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: Hard disk boot???
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

uace0@uhnix2.UUCP writes:
> The problem you have with holding down the alt-ctrl-shift may have to do with
> WHEN you hold down the keys.  If you bootup with! the keys down, then it will
> not work with the new ROMs.
> Try turning on the machine (or resetting) wait a second, then hold down the
> keys.  This should work.
> Don't use GEMBOOT with th[e new ROMs, use foldrxxx.prg instead.

So, let me see...  If there is a disk in the drive at power-on, the Supra
boots *immediately*.  If I have the three keys down (diskette in drive),
Supra still boots immedately.  Seems like I have to: turn machine on.  Wait
about one second.  Push the three keys.  (Maybe wait for ST to go after the
floppy drive again) Push diskette into drive while holding the keys down.
What a pain!  I don't think it'll work, either.

I'm going to call Supra today and ask them if they have a boot program
that is a little less zealous ;-)

> Also, I had the same[ problem with the message about a non-supported ROM
> version.  Ignore the message, the driver is actually installed, and works
> just fine.

> - Mike
> --
> #-----------------------------------------------------# University (of
 Houston)
> # It is morally wrong to let a sucker keep his money. # Atari Computer
> #-----------------------------------------------------# Enthusiasts (UACE)
> Use Atarinet: for help, interactively send a message to UH-INFO@UHUPVM1



                Farrell T. Woods

Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group    4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960
VOICE:    617-535-6644;    FAX: (617) 535-5643;  TWX: (710) 347-0125
INTERNET: ftw@datacube.COM
UUCP: {rutgers, ihnp4, mirror}!datacube!ftw

"OS/2 -- Half an operating system"

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 20:01:00 GMT
From: cca!mirror!datacube!ftw@husc6.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: Hard disk boot???
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

This morning, I wrote:

> uace0@uhnix2.UUCP writes:
>> The problem you have with holding down the alt-ctrl-shift may have to do with
>> WHEN you hold down the keys.  If you bootup with! the keys down, then it will
>> not work with the new ROMs.
>> Try turning on the machine (or resetting) wait a second, then hold down the
>> keys.  This should work.
>> Don't use GEMBOOT with th[e new ROMs, use foldrxxx.prg instead.

> So, let me see...  If there is a disk in the drive at power-on, the Supra
> boots *immediately*.  If I have the three keys down (diskette in drive),
> Supra still boots immedately.  Seems like I have to: turn machine on.  Wait
> about one second.  Push the three keys.  (Maybe wait for ST to go after the
> floppy drive again) Push diskette into drive while holding the keys down.
> What a pain!  I don't think it'll work, either.
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> I'm going to call Supra today and ask them if they have a boot program
> that is a little less zealous ;-)

I just got off the phone with a tech-support guy at Supra.  He tells me that
the scenario described above is exactly what I have to do; they cannot
program around it.

They say that the problem is in the "blitter" ROMs.  The keycode that is
made by ctrl-shift-alt isn't available to the Supra boot program as soon as
that program would really like it to be.  The boot program cannot detect
the key combo until much later in the boot, at which time the program is
just about to boot from the fixed disk anyway.

                Farrell T. Woods

Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group    4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960
VOICE:    617-535-6644;    FAX: (617) 535-5643;  TWX: (710) 347-0125
INTERNET: ftw@datacube.COM
UUCP: {rutgers, ihnp4, mirror}!datacube!ftw

"OS/2 -- Half an operating system"

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 05:53:08 GMT
From: ihnp4!chinet!dag@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Daniel A. Glasser)
Subject: Re: big arrays in MW C
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <291@stag.UUCP> trb@stag.UUCP ( Todd Burkey ) writes:
>Hi,
>  Does anyone know if MWC will safely handle large arrays now? I know
>that I had problems in the early versions with HDSCAN's arrays in that
>I had to keep the total amount of data in a particular array less than
>32K bytes. Now when I compile tests (i.e. a char[10000][12]), I get a
>message like:
>  strict: size of array overflows size_t
>
This message is just a warning -- it is because size_t is in fact an
unsigned int in MWC 2.1.7.  size_t is the default type of the result
of the sizeof operator.  MWC does support objects larger than 64K now,
and this warning is harmless unless you are passing sizeof(foo) to a
function that is expecting an int.  Sizeof is promoted to a long when
it overflows the unsigned int.  When MWC releases an ANSI conforming
(rather than K&R, which is what it conforms to now with some ANSI
extensions), size_t will become a long instead of an int, and then
this kind of warning will go away.

Even in version 2.0, external objects of > 32K were supported, they
just could not be declared.  They could be allocated with lmalloc()
and then accessed as arrays using the pointer/array equivilance.

I hope all of this helps.
--
                    Daniel A. Glasser
                    ...!ihnp4!chinet!dag
                    ...!ihnp4!mwc!dag
                    ...!ihnp4!mwc!gorgon!dag
    One of those things that goes "BUMP!!! (ouch!)" in the night.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 07:00:10 GMT
From: coplex!jim@BLOOM-BEACON.MIT.EDU  (Jim Sewell)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <2598@killer.UUCP>, elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) writes:

    [conversation ommitted]

>     2) Most of us are notoriously short on foresight, like I was when I
> thought that 64K and a floppy drive was the epitomy of computing (after all, I
> can do everything you can, right? I can process words, play games, etc.?).
> --
> Eric Lee Green  elg@usl.CSNET        Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191
> {cbosgd,ihnp4}!killer!elg            Lafayette, LA 70509
> "There's someone in my head, but it's not me...." -PF

Speaking of being short on foresight, it was only today that I was modifying
my handy dandy disk re-organizer program (Devices are a pain!) and guess what?
I was trying to ^XF (save and finish up) out of Emacs and was out of disk space.
How many of you have ever told an editor you were finished, fallen short of disk
space, and lost everything because the editor was not taught social graces?  I'm
sure I'm not the only one.
Solution?  Use my MULTITASKING Amiga to clean out some disk space before I
    clicked on the retry block of the requestor.
Result? I didn't kill my entire family due to the frustration of losing my
    program.
Moral?  Even though nearly anything can be simulated with proper programming on
    a non M-T system, it rarely is.  Many programmers take short cuts which
    do not allow for mistakes.  M-T'ing systems are like insurance in case
    your favorite program has problems.

================================================================================
Jim Sewell        "Make knowledge free!"         <*> <*>
Code: 1-1A                        /

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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