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Subject:  Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #9
To:       PETCHER@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
          DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest   Thursday, January  7, 1988   Volume 88 : Issue 9

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

                  Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
                  Re: Multi-tasking? A Nightmare...
                      Re: BMS controller package
                 Using a 520ST for video tape titling
                  Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
                     Re: Text -> Speech Programs
                        Re: IBM Drives with ST
                     cartridge slot kludge boards
                       TCP/IP for the ATARIs ?
                  Exactly what IS in a reg dev kit?
                       Re: Microsoft Write ...
            Re: Christmas Adventure - Elves87 Part 1 of 4

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 17:01:46 GMT
From: mike@ames.arpa  (Mike Smithwick)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <2027@bath63.ux63.bath.ac.uk> pes@ux63.bath.ac.uk (Smee) writes:
>
> [deleted a bunch of stuff on how "we really don't need multi-tasking"
>
>I have an image of telling my machine 'make fred', and then letting it get on
>with it while I do a bit of word-processing, or whatever.  Only to be hit
>milliseconds later with an alert box:
>
>       BACKGROUND COMPILATION NEEDS LIBRARY DISK
>       PLEASE INSERT LIBRARY DISK INTO DRIVE B
>
>and, a second or two after I do that:
>
>       FOREGROUND PROCESS NEEDS AUTO-SAVE DISK
>       PLEASE INSERT DISK INTO DRIVE B
>
This reminds me of a joke. . .

   A guy goes to a doctor and says "Doc, it hurts when I do this" (he lifts
   an arm up, or something)

   So the doctor says, "well then, don't do that".

If running marble-madness slows up a compile too much, don't run
marble-madness.

The moral of the story is, don't ask us do be limited by others "limitations".
As opposed to IBM, and now even (Cr)Apple, who are now bending down to the
lowest common denominator, who don't want to burden the average user with
unnecessary complexity (the original closed-Mac architecture was a
manifestation of this philosophy).

--
                   *** mike (powered by M&Ms) smithwick ***
"if it wasn't for venitian blinds,
it would be curtains for all of us!"
[discalimer : nope, I don't work for NASA, I take full blame for my ideas]

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 18:40:24 GMT
From: rochester!ur-tut!dpvc@louie.udel.edu  (Davide P. Cervone)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A Nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <2187@crash.cts.com> haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes:
>    What about the example I gave of two resident programs cohabitating
>    and interacting even though written in different Languages?  While
>    you don't NEED to have multi-tasking to do this, it makes an otherwise
>    complicated job very much easier, and therefore much more likely to be
>    successfully accomplished.  It certainly is attractive to me because
>    it means I don't have to "share" any of my source with someone whom
>    I may want to collaborate with.

I think Wade is right on target here.  Multi-tasking does not have to be seen
by the user to be important.  On the Amiga, you can't HELP but use multi-
tasking, because the operating system is using it all the time.  Each disk
drive has a separate "Filing System" process running (use MonProc, you'll see
them), there is a separate input task running (I believe that Intuition really
is an input handler, so technically, it runs as part of the input device task),
each CLI window has a console task associated with it, the serial port has a
separate task controlling it.

Why is this important?  Because it makes it so much easier to do things.  For
example, early on in the Amiga's life, Matt Dillon (I think) distributed a
set of asynchronous file routines.  These are very useful, and almost trivial
to implement under a multi-tasking OS (not to belittle Matt's work - it's quite
good).

Or how about the Workbench?  Contrary to many people's belief, the WB is NOT
the operating system.  It's just a program.  A plain, old, ordinary program,
with no special tricks or hooks.  An ordinary mortal could write a program that
does similar actions.  Witness HackBench.  I've often thought about writing
a WB replacement myself.

If you want to talk about disk swapping, try switching between applications
on a Macintosh.  It has to load the Finder every time.  Why do you think theres
a "mini-finder" menu option?  I keep trying to pull down the "screen" and use
the finder which I expect to still be running back there.

I've written programs that monitor other programs (MonProc and MonIDCMP), and
that run as input handlers (ClickUpFront, HeliosMouse, wKeys), and some stuff
that I haven't released.  These would be much more difficult without
multi-tasking.

Code can be made much more modular with multi-tasking, and smaller, too.  Unix
people should love this, because you can make programs much more like filters,
except you have both ends of the pipe running at the same time, passing data
via a message port, or even a PIPE: device.  Functions don't have to be
duplicated from program to program.  For instance, if I write a program that
graphs a function, I will not have to add a save-to-IFF-file option, because
I already have a program that lets me select a portion of a window or screen
and save it as an IFF file.  That's a normal program - no special desk-
accessory hooks, no special requirements about what programs I can use it with,
or what ones I HAVE to have running when I use it.

Don't get me wrong, desk-accessories are great (I'd never be able to use a Mac
without them), but they are an attempt to achieve multi-taksing where it's
not built into the system to start with.  Admirable!  Great stuff! Keep up
the good work!  But don't complain when someone offers you what you've been
trying to achieve all along.

>        THE POINT IS THIS:  As a programmer I find the idea of writing
>      such a program as being much simpler with multi-tasking facilities
>      than without them.

Exactly!  Right on!

>         My question for you is, what do you have against multi-tasking?

I also wonder the same thing.  Where's the beef?

>      Take OUR (all of us who have given testomonials) word for it that
>      the disk swapping "nightmare" is indeed just a bad dream.

As I mentioned before, I'd hate to have to load the Workbench in from disk
every time I quit using a program!  I'm much happier letting it run in the
background until I need it again.

One last comment:  (finally :-)  the times I find multi-tasking the most
helpful is when I WASN'T expecting to have to use it.  If I'm using a word
processor writing a paper, and need to check some results, I can just start up
my statistical analysis program to get my answers (and I can keep on writing
while it loads in of the floppy).  I don't want to have to know ahead of time
that I need to start up whatever carousel or special multi-tasking editor
I need in order to do this.  If I knew ahead of time, I'd have done the
statistics before I started the word-processor!

Well, I've gone on far too long as it is.  Thanks for listening.

>                               Wade.
>UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex
>ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil
>INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM

Davide P. Cervone
dpvc@tut.cc.rochester.edu
dpvc@ur-tut.UUCP
DPVC@UORDBV.BITNET

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 13:54:07 GMT
From: rochester!rocksanne!xrxns!xerox12!toml@rutgers.edu  (Tom Love)
Subject: Re: BMS controller package
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

re: bugs in bms package -

i've been running a bms-based hard disk system since last january.
the only bugs i have ever encountered were software bugs.  recall that
the bms adapter board has a battery-backed clock.  it seems that chris
rhodin, the guy who runs bms and does the development, made a very small
but important error in the clock-setting program (settime.prg, i think -
the one that goes in your auto folder) which screwed up on february.
actually it was kind of humorous.  never affected hard disk use at all.
he found the problem feb. 1 1987, and had updated software out in the mail
to everyone shortly thereafter.

i'm mainly posting this to stop what could be a harmful rumor.  i am a
very satisfied customer of berkeley microsystems.  their product is
reasonably priced, in my opinion, and their telephone support is superb
(of course, before they had any documentation, it had to be! :-)

the bms-100 adapter has evolved somewhat;  it is supposedly laid out more
attractively on the board, it is pretty well documented, the software has
all been rewritten.  it's a pretty mature product now.

if there were hardware bugs, i would be interested in hearing about them.
if not, please don't do bms any disservice by spreading such rumors.

one more note:  i wrote an article for ST Applications magazine last spring
detailing the construction of a bms-based hard disk system for the ST.
it covers all the details of a single-HD system, and vaguely addresses
the double-HD system too (at that time i only had one HD).  it appeared
in march 87, i think.  at that time i offered to mail out copies, in
either electronic or paper form, to anyone who requested one.  that
offer still stands.  note that the electronic form omits the graphics
(done on my cad system at work, not on the st), so if you want the whole
thing you should buy the magazine or request the paper copy from me.
if you want electronic, mail me at the address below;  if you want paper,
send me a self-addressed stamped envelope to the postal address below.


tom love
Xerox Engineering Design and Documentation Systems
Leesburg, VA 22075    (703)729-8000

{cornell, kodak, ritcv, rutgers, cmcl2, llxn}!rochester!
                                                       rocksanne!xrxns!toml
                                    {rocksvax, sunybcs}!

rt 2, box 277
sterling, va 22170


tom love
xerox Engineering Design and Documentation Systems
leesburg, va 22075    (703)729-8000

{cornell, kodak, ritcv, rutgers, cmcl2, llxn}!rochester!
                                                        rocksanne!xrxns!toml
                                    {rocksvax, sunybcs}!

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 21:46:00 GMT
From: ssdevo.dec.com!marks@decwrl.dec.com  (Randy Marks DTN 522-2718)
Subject: Using a 520ST for video tape titling
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Has anybody used their ST for creating video tape titles?  If so, I'd like
to hear how you did it.
- What software did you use to create the title?
- Did you transfer the image directly via video connectors?  Or did you
  simply record the image displayed on the monitor using a camcorder?

Randy Marks
...decwrl!ssdevo.dec.com!marks

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 22:32:41 GMT
From: ihnp4!ihuxy!rnss@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Ron Schreiner)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Well this subject line get my vote for the "longest-most-usless" aword
of 87.  If you are not clever enough to take advantage of multi-tasking
then don't use it, and stop telling everyone "who needs it ? "


--
Ron Schreiner   AT&T Bell Labs  ...ihnp4!ihuxy!rnss

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 13:33:36 GMT
From: ihnp4!mhuxu!cbz@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Craig B. Ziemer)
Subject: Re: Text -> Speech Programs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <3388@nswitgould.OZ>, tony@nswitgould.OZ (Tony McGrath) writes:
>
> What he is looking for is a Text -> Speech conversion program that

Tony:

I tried several times to reach you via e-mail, but was unsuccessful (not
surprising since the path was 17 machines long).  There is a prograam
called STSPEECH that will speak a line typed in on the keyboard or speak
an already-created text file.  Needless to say, it has a very strong
"synthesized speech" accent but it really quite  understandable.  It is a
public domain program.  Send me e-mail if you want the details.

Craig Z. at AT&T
mhuxu!cbz

------------------------------

Date: 30 Dec 87 02:56:36 GMT
From: lakesys!rich@csd1.milw.wisc.edu  (Rich Dankert)
Subject: Re: IBM Drives with ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <568@unirot.UUCP> josh@unirot.UUCP (josh  cohen) writes:
>
>lineaterlineaterlineaterlineater
>
>
>      Does anyone have the document file on how to hook up an IBM
>style drive?

    Josh;

Here is the connections that I made. Has been doen to the Tandons and others
without problems.

    ST pin #            IBM Style drive pin #

    1    -----------------------        30
    2    -----------------------        32
    3    -----------------------        3
    4    -----------------------        8
    5    -- This is the drive select - hook to #2 (B) on IBM Style
    6    -- Drive select also, but ignore this one
    7    -----------------------        3
    8    -----------------------        16
    9    -----------------------        18
    10    -----------------------        20
    11    -----------------------        22
    12    -----------------------        24
    13    -----------------------        26
    14    -----------------------        28

    There is also a resistor that will have to be pulled up, to make
the drive work correctly. I Think it's R49 on most. It's value is in the
range of 100 to three hundred Ohm's. It's usually situated close to the
drive select block in the IBM Style drive.

    A little more info here.

    On the Atari's drive connector, pins 5 and 6 are the drive select,
but be aware that these are switched as you chain the drives through. I
usually connect the drive right to the drive A (Atari's) out port.

    On the IBM Style drives, pins 10 & 12 are the drive selects. Use
drive select 0, (pin #10, in the Ibm style)

    This should help you in making the drive work correctly. One more
note here. You will have to obtain (or write your own) program that will
tell the ST that you have a 5 1/4 drive connected and to slow the seek
rate down. The 5 1/4's cannot and will not work at the default seek rate.

    Good luck!

-rich

UUCP: {Ihnp4,uwvax}!uwmcsd1!lakesys!rich
Discalimer: The words,ideas,and expressions are my own, and not nessasarily
always correct, and I make np warranty (expressed or Implied) to the above
statement(s) though I do know that it does work for me and other's.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 21:29:32 GMT
From: pixar!mgr@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Michael Griffin Russell)
Subject: cartridge slot kludge boards
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Anyone out there know a company that sells a prototype
board for the ST cartridge slot.  Any info on physically
plugging into the cartridge slot would be appreciated.
--
Mike Russell ucbvax!pixar!mgr    Don't worry, amnesia is a common
                side effect of re-incarnation.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1987
From: Frank Elsner - TUBerlin/ZRZ <181%DB0TUZ01.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Reply-To: Frank Elsner - TUBerlin/ZRZ
 <181%DB0TUZ01.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu>
To: INFO-ATARI16@score.stanford.edu
Subject:      TCP/IP for the ATARIs ?

We, Technical University Berlin Computing Center, are urgently
looking for a TCP/IP implementation for the ATARIs.

If you have any informations, don't hesitate to send it to us :-

-Frank

------------------------------

Date: 30 Dec 87 02:49:51 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!watdragon!violet!rfpfeifle@rutgers.edu  (Ron Pfeifle)
Subject: Exactly what IS in a reg dev kit?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

I've seen alot of flames about the registered developer kits.  But I don't
even really know what's in them.

Would someone out there who knows please enlighten me (us) as what exactly
are the contents of a "registered developer's kit"?

(Just the facts, ma'am)

Ron

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 18:41:15 GMT
From: portal!atari!neil@uunet.uu.net  (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: Microsoft Write ...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <327@lakesys.UUCP>, martin@lakesys.UUCP (Martin Wiedmeyer) writes:

>     Neil, what's the Mfg's Suggested Retail Price (list price) for MS
> Write?

$129.

--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 17:56:32 GMT
From: portal!atari!neil@uunet.uu.net  (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: Christmas Adventure - Elves87 Part 1 of 4
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <250@dalcsug.UUCP>, euloth@dalcsug.UUCP (George Seto) writes:

> The adventure was done with the ADVSYS program which is available for the
> be  or should be usuable on these systems. The kernal of the ADVSYS was
> extensively re-worked for this game and has many additional features
> that you would not expect from playing around with ADVSYS.

OK, where did this come from, how can we get the reworked ADVSYS, and, most
important -- are there docs on how to program it?  The original ADVSYS is
fascinating but ultimately frustrating because the docs don't give you
enough information to actually program the durn thing!

--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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