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In article <1656@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, tw@cscosl.ncsu.edu (Thomas Wolf) writes:
> In article <1292@mcgp1.UUCP> fst@mcgp1.UUCP (Skip Tavakkolian) writes:
>>For Your Information:
>>IDRIS TARGET SYSTEM (TS) ........................................ $149.95 (US)
>>STX-WINDOWS, When purchased with IDRIS TS or PS ................. $49.95  (US)
> 	Could you use MW C to develop software under Idris?

You could NOT use the version that runs under TOS. IDRIS completely replaces
TOS.

> 
> The prices  quoted in the article seem to be extremely reasonable.  However,
> I wonder how worthwhile it would be to develop software for Idris.  Although
> it appears to be a fairly extensive Unix-like environment (correct?).

IDRIS fully conforms to the IEEE POSIX(TM) standards. The Whitesmiths C
compiler which accompanies the IDRIS PS system is a FULL ANSI C compiler.
Whitesmiths Ltd, as an active members of both the POSIX and the ANSI C
committees, follows the development of the purposed and the accepted
standards of these committees closely.

As a more down-to-earth example of how Unix(R)-like IDRIS is, suppose that
you want to get a file-descriptor associated with controlling tty of your
process, you do it just as you have done it under UNIX:

	int fd = open("/dev/tty", O_RDWR);	/* O_RDWR == 2 */

IDRIS has many real-time extensions which are not available in Unix. The
shared memory and message passing facilities are much more capable than
those in SYS V. As a matter of fact our original sockets for the X-Windows
were written using IDRIS's message passing system and timers. IDRIS uses
the same patented ``set user id'' mechanism (invented by Ritchie of AT&T)
as the ``real'' unices (with the permission of the AT&T).

IDRIS binaries (use of special hardware notwithstanding) are compatible
across machines of same processor.  For example, programs generated on an
OmniByte or HP 200 series, running IDRIS *WILL* run under ATARI ST running
IDRIS, if no hardware specific features are used (i.e. the VDI routines
in the ATARI)

> I don't see a market (at least an ST/Mega market) for it.  I suppose the
> target market wasn't supposed to be the ST/Mega but any Unix-supporting
> environment?

ST/MEGA are very capable machines, and if marketed correctly will have 
a great future.  We are working closely with a number of UNIX software
vendors which are porting their software to IDRIS for ST/MEGA environment.
The list is growing. These include compilers, word processors database
management system, etc.

Yes, IDRIS runs on a large number of computers with a variety of processors
and architectures.  Its first release was back in 1978 as the first V6 Unix
compatible system.  IDRIS is heavily used in many real-time, embedded
applications.

> Can you port source-level code written under Idris to other Unix machines
> without modifications?

Yes. Again if you are not using any hardware specific features. IDRIS for
ST also has socket drivers, select and pty drivers which you do not find
under SYS V.  Whitesmiths C also has many hybrid library routines which you
do not find in many UNIX environment, (i.e. onintr, match, amatch, pattern,
getflags, getfiles, etc.)  These extensions could spoil you, but if you stay
generic you will not have any problems porting from IDRIS to UNIX.

> 
> One last question:  What system configuration does one need to have to use
> Idris as a reasonable fast tool?  I have a 20meg hd, but from what I hear
> about other systems supporting flavors of Unix, the environment takes up lots
> of room.  This isn't really that an important a question, but I'm curious as
> to Idris' size.

IDRIS kernel can be as small as 135 KB (without socket, or pty drivers) or
between 180 to 200 KB for a fully configured kernel. The number of system
buffers could increase or decrease this size.  IDRIS requires about
3 megabytes of disk for binaries.  A minimum of 10 megabytes is recommended.
You can run IDRIS comfortably on a 520ST (512KB) with two users.
IDRIS *and* STX-Windows require about 1.5 megabytes of memory.

> I also would appreciate more articles summarizing Idris.

There was a writeup in the ``Product of the month'' column in the
January 1988 issue of the UNIX World magazine. They have also done a product
review which I believe is scheduled for April 1988 (this month).
I will be writing up a more informative summary which I will post soon.

> Atari's commitment to it, etc.
> Tom Wolf
> ARPA (I think): tw@cscosl.ncsu.edu
>            or wolf@csclea.ncsu.edu

Computer Tools International Inc. or Whitesmiths LTD are not affiliated
with the ATARI CORP.  Computer Tools and Whitesmiths LTD have close working
relation. The well being of IDRIS and Whitesmiths C compilers are in our
best interest.  I believe we can support our products better than anyone else.

Skip Tavakkolian

UUCP	...!uw-beaver!tikal!mcpg1!fst
Computer Tools Int'l Inc.
14900 Interurban Ave. South, Suite 201
Seattle, WA 98168
(206)243-7060