🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <2771@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu> c162-br@zooey.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Warner Young) writes:
>In article <303@bdt.UUCP> david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) writes:
>>In article <1043@atari.UUCP> good@atari.UUCP (Roy Good) writes:
>>>Please be aware of the facts before flaming Atari! [:-)]
>>[ body of message deleted ]
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>Roy J. Good
>>>Product Development, Atari Corporation
>>>
>>Well Mr Roy J. Good, I'll flame Atari any time I want, facts or no
>>facts!   [no :-)]  Who are you to tell this net they need FACTS to flame?
>
>>If I need facts, I'll go over to a real computer news group.  This is
>>the Atari group remember?   Hey did I tell you about the new ABAQ transputer
[...]
>>David Beckemeyer			| "Yuh gotta treat people jes' like yuh	
>>Beckemeyer Development Tools		| do mules. Don't try to drive 'em. Jes'
[reverse flame on Dave Beckemeyer deleted]

	"What we got here is a failure to communicate..."

	We aren't getting anywhere flaming each other to death.  This
is getting all of us nowhere.  Now I understand Mr. Beckemeyer's point
about Atari's attitudes about support and the fact that most of us
agree, and Mr. Young's point about how some of us like our ST and just
want to be able to use the computer more successfully, but...

	Now, in defence of Dave, he _can_ flame when he darn well
pleases, but he will be held responsible for what he says.  And,
anyone who really doesn't want to read something from Mr. Beckemeyer,
one can use the 'n', 'k' or 'K' keys.  'Nuf said.

	Enough talk.  Enough preaching.  I have been thinking, what
the ST really needs.  And whether or not Atari will supply it (I'd
guess not.)  Dave, Warner, et. al., here are a few things that would
make life easier, if all were treated in a standard way:

1.  File Formats.

	IFF is a good idea, in theory at least.  Whether it'd be good
for the Atari or not, what do you think?  I think that a
'clipboard'-type interface (like the Mac) would be an welcome
addition.  Could this be achieved in a GDOS-type method, using some
sort of metafile, or would the IFF method be easier?  I remember Tom
Hudson writing in STart magazine how he'd like to see everyone use a
standard method of sharing information.  Recently something called
'pbm' (for portable bitmap manipulator) came across the net to allow
for a generic standard for bitmap manipulation.  Would this be usable
on the ST?

2.  Desktop.

	How come no one has come out with a better Desktop?  Has
someone else tried it?  Am I missing something? Is it
impossible, does everyone else like using shells all the time (I
personally use gulaam, which is very nice, but a graphical interface
is nice sometimes too...how about a graphical interface over gulaam?
Hm... )  We don't need X (although it'd be damn nice)
but the desktop, well, it sucks.  Really bad.

3.  Multitasking.

	Okay, laugh, ha ha.  I know that BDT's RTX works well, or at
least from what I've heard, but I guess I would like to see it.  I
didn't see anything, Dave, but did you ever decide one whether or not
to make RTX 'PD', or 'semi-PD' or whatever?  I'd be very interested in
seeing a 'standardized' multitasking 'upgrade' to the ST.  Others
would too, as you may have already found out.  But no one has seemed
very serious (besides you) of doing anything about it.

4.  The future.

	Wither Atari?  "Hello, is anyone listening out in Sunnyvale"
has been the comp.sys.atari.st call to battle.  I am as guilty as
anyone else of flaming Atari while not mailing/calling them
personally.  Like flaming is gonna change anything.  This is not to
say that Atari will sit up and take notice if I do snailmail/call, but
it would be worth a try (apologies to Dave again, since it has been
thoroughly thrashed out how Atari is not receptive, or so it seems, to
developers, so please pardon any naivete or ignorance on my part.)
Would we buy an ST again?   (Replys to weaver@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
only, _PLEASE_ do not hit the 'f' button)

	I want to see the ST work.  Hey, I know of people who still
use Timex 2068s and have active user groups for a computer that, in
this country at least, seems to be more or less extinct (in a
marketing sense.)  Again, this may all sound very optimistic or very
naive, but then how much light has been shed in all the smoke of the
current flame wars in this group alone?  Let's be real.

	Flame me if you will, but I'd really rather see something
constructive come out of this discussion...

---
Andrew Weaver 				          weaver@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
OSU College of Business				  soon:      andy@osu-pisa.UUCP

We don' need no iteration
We don' need no flow control
No strong typecasting in our program
Teacher leave my obfusgated code alone...

Hey Pascal!  Leave us kids alone!
All in all its just a-nother list in the code...