🚀 go-pugleaf

Two people have asked that I post the message in comp.sys.amiga that
compares the two machines.  Here is an extract of that article.
If anyone has comments about this, I can forward them to Edwin.

>From: ehoogerbeets@rose.waterloo.edu (Edwin Hoogerbeets)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Introduction to comp.sys.amiga
Message-ID: <14247@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Date: 3 Jun 89 00:13:08 GMT
Expires: 3 Jul 89 20:37:25 GMT
Sender: daemon@watdragon.waterloo.edu
Reply-To: ehoogerbeets@rose.waterloo.edu (Edwin Hoogerbeets)
Organization: U. of Waterloo, Ontario

This is an introductory posting to comp.sys.amiga. If you are a new
reader of this group or even if you just want Amiga/Usenet information,
please read the following articles. 

   [Many topics deleted.]

,BUY   Which machine to buy? (500 or 2000 Amiga, Atari, Mac?)
         uunet!Sun.COM!cmcmanis (Chuck McManis)
         geoffs@smoke.UUCP
         AmigaIan@cup.portal.com.UUCP

>From: uunet!Sun.COM!cmcmanis (Chuck McManis)
Subject: a comparison of PC's... which one to buy

This posting is an effort on my part to demonstrate why 
these arguments are pointless. I try to show that the Amiga 500 and 
the 1040 ST are essentially the same design with different compromises.
When all is said and done they are the same computer. You as a reader
look at the two machines, look at the way the designers compromised,
and pick the one that *you* like better. Also be aware that your
choice is only the better choice from your perspective, others will
disagree and they are also correct from *their* perspective.

Take the following comments from Peter as an example :
In article <11767@cup.portal.com> (Peter Ted Szymonik) writes:
>                                   ...I'd say Atari will have no
> problem reaching the million mark next year if it hasn't already
> done so! ...

Given the "magicalness" of a million machines (see the PS/2, Apple Mac
announcements when they broke a million) it is clear that Atari (or
Commodore for that matter) will be shouting to everyone that can read
(especially developers) to let them in on the good news. Witness
Commodore's hyper sensitivity as they get closer to that number.

>  Also, I'm sure that a good chunk of those Amiga sales
> were the 500 which was probably bought primarily as a game machine
> while the majority of STs out there are 1040's which have much
> greater utility.

This is an especially wonderful example of why debating machine merits 
is a waste of time. Here is a guy who obviously is very proud of his
computer ownership attempting to slander the "competition" with absolutely
no facts at all. If he understood the Amiga computer line he would realize
that the Amiga 500 *is* the Atari 1040 ST competition. Line up the features
side by side and even a third grader could tell you they were the same 
machine, to wit :
                         1040 ST           Amiga 500
                        ----------        ----------        
Processor                68000             68000
"Main" Memory            1 Meg             1 Meg (with A501 clock/ram card)
Screen Resolution        320 X 200         350 X 200
  various #'s of         640 X 200         700 X 200
  colors.                640 X 480         700 X 440
Disk Drive               720K              880K
Serial Port              Yes               Yes
Parallel Port            Yes               Yes
MIDI Port                Yes               No
DMA Port                 Yes               No
Expansion Bus            No                Yes
Hard Disk Available      Yes               Yes
Memory Expansion Avail   Yes               Yes
Max Memory               4 MB              9 Mb
Blitter                  No*               Yes
Audio                    Yes               Yes
-----
* Blitter optional according to some things I have seen

And the astute readers will note that a.) Prices are different, b.)
Implementations are different, and c.) Neither machine is the "better"
machine to everyone. In terms of hardware capabilities they offer 
the same functions. 

The question you ask are "What are the decisions the designers made?"
Take MIDI for example. The Amiga does not have a MIDI port, the designers
did not decide to include one. It is easy to turn the Amiga serial port into
a MIDI port but it will cost you the user extra cash. *You* decide which
decision is better for *you*. Same thing with a hard disk. Atari builds
in a DMA port that makes connecting a SCSI device easier, Commodore provides
and expansion bus that you can connect a hard disk controller to. Here
the Atari designer may have said "Well, either we offer a hard disk 
interface or an expansion interface, which will it be? Gee most of 
our users will just want a hard disk so lets offer that." Whereas the
Amiga designer might have said "Lets offer an expansion port so that
other things beside a hard disk can be easily connected here." The 
Atari decision makes for cheaper hard disks, the Commodore decision
makes for greater flexibility. Which do *you* prefer? *You* decide and
that makes that machine best for you. When one evaluates both machines
you will notice that the Commodore decisions tended to flexibility even
when it raised the cost, whereas Atari's leaned toward keeping the 
price down at the cost of flexibility. None of these decisions make 
one computer "better" than the other, they just make the computers
different.

Of course none of this means anything to someone who's ego is tied up
in the computer they own. That type of person will get just as hyper
about whether or not a BMW is better than a Mercedes or a Ford is better
than a Mercury. The important point to remember is that when you read
an article from someone who really likes their computer and thinks anyone
who doesn't like their computer obviously has a learning disability, you
have to understand that they are *correct*. This is how they think from
*their* perspective. There is no need to point out how their perspective
disagrees strongly with *your* perspective. That is because both of your
perspectives will disagree with everyone elses perspective. The end result
is a couple of thousand articles describing the authors perspective and
views. If you could condense them into a single survey message you might
et the Signal to Noise ratio up above .5 but I doubt it.

Well thats *my* perspective,

-- 
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis   BIX: cmcmanis  ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
----------------
>From: geoffs@smoke.UUCP
Subject: Re: Atari vs. Amiga: what to buy?

ATARI VS. AMIGA: WHAT TO BUY? 

  * the bottom line is -- whatever you like best. *
  but here are some thoughts:

WORK/SCHOOL OS features:
========================

  What kind of environment are you using at work/school? It is
  Likely Multi-tasking. (VAX VMS, UNIX, ?)

  - (AMIGA & ST) If VMS, I don't know of any VMS look-alikes for 
    either machine. there is a PD editor (TVX) that can be configured 
    to look like the VMS EDT editor I think... I know it can be made
    to look like VI and emacs/jove/uemacs... (unix). 

  - (AMIGA) If unix at work,... unix editor PD look-a-likes "vi" and
    "emacs" are available. (They are also available on the ST).

  - (ST) If unix at work, then note that an ST version of MINIX 
    has gone to Prentice Hall for distribution (out in Sept? - check
    comp.os.minix on when). You are familiar with MINIX? It is Version
    7 unix look alike muli-tasking OS, comes with compiler and
    unix-behaving tools.

  - (AMIGA) As you know the Amiga has multi-tasking built in, so it you
    can handle a different interface from the one at work, but are
    used to multi-tasking, you are already set.

  - (ST) UNIX? Today *now* there is a nice PD shell on the  ST (gulam)
    that looks a lot like the unix shell with many of the
    commands. The editor is emacs-like, and you can pause the
    editor, escape to the shell, compile a program, then bring
    the editor back to the fore ground (via "fg" a-la unix). Not
    multi-tasking. Context switching, but it is the unix look and feel.

  - Note: Amiga and ST can run MSDOS stuff with appropriate add-on's.
    ST cam also run MAC stuff with appropriate add-on's.

MIDI:
=====

  The ST came with midi's built in and this has generated a lot of
ST midi software.  Buy a copy of STart magazine.  There are always adds
in that artist-oriented magazine for music editors, and multiple other midi
programs.  I do not know what midi stuff is available on the AMIGA.  I
think there is a large library of midi software on the PC market.  You
may wish to look here too... 

Final suggestions:
  1. Get several machine specific magazines on both computers.
Try to stay away from those published by the machine manufacture; they
tend to be censored and over-hyped: "See how great we are!!!!!!!!".

  2. Please try before you buy. - you may hate the feel of the
     keyboard.

*BOTH* good computers, you probably can't go wrong what ever you
choose.  To be fair, I do not own an Amiga. I own 2 Commodors (the
VIC-20 & C64) am the happy owner of 1 Atari (the ST). 

I will not suggest either computer over the other.  That is a personal
preference.  A choice only you can make.  My experience with both
companys is about the same.  They are probably on a par with the rest of
the retail computer industry.  
-- 
---> geoffs@brl.arpa
--
----------------
>From: AmigaIan@cup.portal.com.UUCP
Subject: Re: 500 or 2000 ?

>My next question is this:
>should I buy an amiga 500 or an amiga 2000?
>Can someone give me the pro's and con's of the two machines?

Ok, let me give it a try,  The 2000 comes with 512K more than the 500 but
I have seen 512K expansion for the 500 priced under $150.
You can have IBM compatibility with the 2000 but not with the 500.
The 2000 costs more $$$ but it is a little less expensive to expand.
The 2000 is bigger than the 500.
If you expand with the 500 you need alot of space.
The 500 is about $700 cheaper if you get a 1 meg 500.
The 2000 is now selling for $1499.
The 500 is now selling for $649.

Did I miss anything? I believe those are all the diffrences.  Hope I made
things easier rather than harder.

Ian_Matthew_Smith@cup.portal.com

-- 
Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: JMS@F74.TYMNET.COM or jms@tymix.tymnet.com
McDonnell Douglas FSCO  | UUCP: ...!{ames,pyramid}!oliveb!tymix!tardis!jms
PO Box 49019, MS-D21    | PDP-10 support: My car's license plate is "POPJ P,"
San Jose, CA 95161-9019 | narrator.device: "I didn't say that, my Amiga did!"