🚀 go-pugleaf

Rainbow Echomail Digest                      OCT 14, 1989

In this issue:
   RE: FIDONET ON COMPUSERV
   RE: RE: 1-2-3 RELEASE 2.2
   V4.1
   RE: FIDONET ON COMPUSERV
   DEC RAINBOW 100 DISK FORS
   DEC RAINBOW 100 DISK FORS
   RE: ALTERNATE CHARACTERS
   RE: ALTERNATE CHARACTERS
   DEC RAINBOW 100 DISK FORS
   RAINBOW USERS UNITED!!!
   RE: FIDONET ON COMPUSERV
   RE: BURNING ICS
   MS-DOS 3.1
   RE: COMPUSERVE DISCUSSION
   RE: RE: DEC RAINBOW DISK
   MY FRUGALITY
   DEC RAINBOW 100 DISK FORS
   PIBTERM
   RE: MS-DOS 3.1


  Articles posted to either INFO-DEC-MICRO or comp.sys.dec.micro are
currently gatewayed automatically to the Rainbow Echo on Fidonet; thus,
you do need not to take any special action to respond to articles in
these digests.

  Please send reports of problems or suggestions for improvement of this
digest to GTHEALL@PENNDRLS.UPENN.EDU (ARPA Internet).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:      10-11-89 (17:27)
Subject:  RE: FIDONET ON COMPUSERV
From:      BILL MAYHEW

> Can you tell me about QC for the Rainbow?
Sure... what would you like to know? ;-}
It's free, it supports Kermit (some features still being tested), XMODEM,
CompuServe "B" (actually Quick-B I believe), and one other protocol that
I'm not familiar with (Telix, I think?).  It is actively supported, written
expressly for the Rainbow, and does not require Code Blue.  I think it just
does VT102 emulation, and even that may not be complete, though the author
is willing to consider enhancements given some public demand.  It does not
support scripting and that looks like a while down the road.  Author is
Carl Neiburger.

--- ConfMail V4.00
* Origin: Still Servicing the Rainbow - Maybee Forever (1:101/1)
------------------------------
Date:      10-10-89 (16:46)
Subject:  RE: RE: 1-2-3 RELEASE 2.2
From:      AMER NELSON

Don't believe it is copy protected.
They just depend on GUILT and the fact that me and thee are
incredibly ethical people.
++ Amer ++


---
* Origin: Glacier Peak Rainbow, Bellevue, WA - 206/644-8431 (Opus 1:343/3)
------------------------------
Date:      10-11-89
Subject:  V4.1
From:      FRANK MALLORY

Got it today, and can't get it to run without Code Blue.  It has printer drive
now; none for DEC printers, but at least there is an "other" driver for generi
text printers.  The screen drivers, tho, are limited to IBM, Hercules, AT&T,
and a few others - no generic MS-DOS driver.

I'm going to call them to see what, if anything, I can get for the Rainbow.
Running MP under CB is unsat as far as I am concerned.


--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Silver Bullet - Silver Spring, Maryland - 301-622-2247 (1:109/123)
------------------------------
Date:      10-10-89
Subject:  RE: FIDONET ON COMPUSERV
From:      MAYNARD MARQUIS

In a message of < 9 Oct 89 15:17:20>, Bill Mayhew (1:101/1) writes:

>  One of the interesting things is
>to observe the difference in subject matter between DECPC and here; here,

>there are a lot of messages related to Binkley, FOSSIL, and
>getting/keeping OPUS/Fido running, while on DECPC there are virtually
>none of those, and a lot more "how do I make printer X work with software

>Y on my Rainbow", "how do I make DEC printer X work with my IBM PC",
>Code Blue, DOS, and applications discussions.
>

On CIS, there are more, "How do I do this on CompuServe?" messages.

I've seen more info on connecting printers and and software stuff here
then on CIS. (This is where I got info on hooking up a LA50 to my PC clone
and given a number where I could pick up the needed software at 9600 HST.)

I have not been impressed that CIS has more useful messages than FidoNet.
It appears that a different crowd hangs out there, though. More commercial
users and less pure hobbiests, perhaps. CIS should be better because of the
money paid to them, but so far it hasn't proven true.

Indeed, I find more messages from one of the CIS DECPC forum SYSOPs here
than on his own messages base. <grin> I suppose one difference is that a CIS
forum sysop is motivated to be helpful to a new forum user, where in fidonet,
nobody is paid to be nice to the new members. To a beginner this may be quite
valuable. Too bad the terrible CIS user interface works against that, however.

BTW, CIS claims foreign links as a virtue, but I can send EMAIL to Europe
for  < $0.17 for messages of up to 14K or so when I use the FidoNet Zone gate
system. (I have and it's reliable.)

CIS is making me appreciate FidoNet more and more... I am intrigued as
to why any nonbusiness users would want to pay for it. (Somebody pays $100/mon
for the special rates for the CBer's club or whatever!)


















--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: TeleTalk BBS (203-674-1802)  (1:142/328)
------------------------------
Date:      10-10-89
Subject:  DEC RAINBOW 100 DISK FORS
From:      GEORGE DAHLCO, SYSOP 102/

In a message of <Oct 08 19:22>, GEORGE THEALL (1:150/731) writes:

GT>From: mcsun!hp4nl!star.cs.vu.nl!huisjes%cs.vu.nl@uunet.uu.net  (Michiel

GT>Huisjes) Organization: VU Informatica, Amsterdam
GT>
GT>A friend of mine just got hold of a DEC Rainbow 100 running MS-DOS 2.11

GT>and he's having troubles with disk formats. It seems that a DEC Rainbow

GT>formats disks at 400K (how odd) and cannot read normal 360K type DOS disks.

George,

Correct. The RB formats diskettes as 80 tracks, single sided, with 10 512
byte     sectors per track (80x10x512 = 409,600 bytes)

GT>A 360K formatted disk gives the error message "non-DOS disk in
GT>drive A:" and if I read a 400K formatted disk in my 386 high-density
GT>drive it claims that the disk type is a single-sided double density 8
spt      GT>disk with 14K used somewhere in the middle (Norton utilities).

Yes, that because the PC is 40 tracks, dual sided, 9 512 byte sectors per
track (40x2x9x512 = 368,640 bytes). The 360K disk has info on both sides,
and    the RB only has one head to read the data, giving erroneous results...

GT>What am I doing wrong? Is a DEC Rainbow really that incompatible and
GT>more important, how do I transfer my software onto the DEC?
GT>
GT>Answers will be greatly appreciated.
GT>--
GT>                        Michiel Huisjes.  (huisjes@cs.vu.nl)

If he formats his diskettes on the PC to single sided (160K), he can read
them  on the Rainbow with no problem but not reliably write them.

If your friend has an AT, he can use the program RX50.ARC to install a driver
in config.sys which allows read/write of RX50 floppys reliably in his AT
HD      diskette drive. He cannot format them to DEC's format on the AT,
however.

If he needs more heavy duty data transfer between machines, he should buy
a      program called Media Master, which allows many many formats to be
read/written     to by the Rainbow (more read than written of course). Good
luck...

-George, 102/138-

--- msged 1.998v
* Origin: Western Region VAX EC, RAINBOW/PDP-11 Echo Hub (1:102/138.1)
------------------------------
Date:      10-11-89
Subject:  DEC RAINBOW 100 DISK FORS
From:      MAYNARD MARQUIS

In a message of <08 Oct 89 19:22:00>, GEORGE THEALL (1:150/731) writes:

>From: mcsun!hp4nl!star.cs.vu.nl!huisjes%cs.vu.nl@uunet.uu.net  (Michiel

>Huisjes)
>Organization: VU Informatica, Amsterdam
>

In an XT class PC, 360K diskette drive for a:,
type

FORMAT A:/1/8

This will create a single sided, 160 K diskette with 8 sectors/ track
that the DEC Rainbow will read in MS-DOS but NOT write. MS-DOS 2.11 on the
'bow and the RX50 will read ONLY single sided diskettes and NOT the 9 sectors/
currently defaulted to on most PC's.

Another useful program is DOSFLX. This is a program that runs in CPM86/80
on the Rainbow that will READ and WRITE to MS-DOS diskettes. It will also
reliably read the above type of PC diskette, the writing can also be done
but frequently produces dubious results.

A better method is to use the program that others have mentioned, which
will create a device driver for use on  AT class or better machines that will
READ and WRITE the DEC RX50 diskettes on a 1.2 meg 5 1/4" floppy drive. This
appears to be quite reliable.

I have the files here, if you cannot find them anywhere else. Most DEC
related BBS's have them.








--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: TeleTalk BBS (203-674-1802)  (1:142/328)
------------------------------
Date:      10-11-89
Subject:  RE: ALTERNATE CHARACTERS
From:      ED RIDPATH

>>  >    "~ EZ-Reader 1.21~"
>I would like to know what kind of Rainbow they show up on as solid
>blocks.  Both the A that I am reading this message with now, and the
>+ that the BBS runs on (I sometimes read messages from the console)
>show is as <QUOTE><TILDE><SPACE>EZ-Reader etc.

What you quoted came over as tildes, so you probably have someone filtering
out hi-bit characters.  "~" is a small centered box, character 254 on an IBM.
If you strip the hi-bit, you get a "~", a tilde. The Rainbow will display
a reverse question mark normally, but the vfossil maps that character to blob
(box).

Ed





--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: Keep It Simple: Ed's Point  (1:360/8.101)
------------------------------
Date:      10-11-89
Subject:  RE: ALTERNATE CHARACTERS
From:      ED RIDPATH

>Opus is not running very well at all under 3.10b - quite a few random
>stoppages, some with "interrupts off".

Oooo, UNgood!

>I think I will be going back to
>3.10.016.

Works for me!

>Anybody else have any experience running Opus under SS 3.10 or 3.10b?

I would like to know if this is a common problem.

Ed

--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: Keep It Simple: Ed's Point  (1:360/8.101)
------------------------------
Date:      10-11-89
Subject:  DEC RAINBOW 100 DISK FORS
From:      GEORGE DAHLCO, SYSOP 102/

In a message of <Oct 09 19:07>, Frank Mallory (1:109/123) writes:

FM>2)  Install the PD program RX50 on your 386 or other PC with
FM>high-density drive, then read/write to D:.

Frank,

Only if you have no partitions designated higher than C:, and only if
RX50DRVR.SYS is installed after other disk drivers (including VDISK.SYS
or    RAMDISK.SYS) in CONFIG.SYS.

If RX50DRVR.SYS is installed as the first device in CONFIG.SYS, the RX50
emulation will be D:. But if this happens with Speedstor or Disk Manager,
or    any other third party hard disk driver software, your next hard disk
partitions  will begin at E: and that may be a big problem!

Likewise, if you install RX50DRVR.SYS after your hard disk drivers, (if
there  are any) but before your ramdisk, the RX50 psuedo disk will be the
logical    drive designated after all hard disk partitions, but before your
ramdisk.

I usually make RX50DRVR.SYS the last line in CONFIG.SYS, except when I have
network software running on a PC, in which case I install it as the last
logical drive on the local PC.

Just food for thought...

-George, 102/138-

PS - As an afterthought, one may need to use LASTDRIVE=x in CONFIG.SYS as
well,  I have had some clones that required that before RX50DRVR.SYS would
be seen    properly.  If it's necessary to use it, I always make that the
last line in    CONFIG.SYS, even with networks.

--- msged 1.998v
* Origin: Western Region VAX EC, RAINBOW/PDP-11 Echo Hub (1:102/138.1)
------------------------------
Date:      10-13-89 (10:04)
Subject:  RAINBOW USERS UNITED!!!
From:      GEORGE THEALL

DS>In a message of <04 Oct 89 21:30:00>, GEORGE THEALL (1:150/731) writes:
DS>
DS>>  WOW! Due to the overwhelmingly positive response, I'll begin relaying
DS>>mail today between IDM/csdm on one hand and the Rainbow echo on Fidonet.
...
DS>Geez, that was easy <grin>.... I think we're all curious to see what this
DS>brings!

  Easy for you, that is! :-) So far I've been simply porting individual
messages from here to IDM/csdm, though I'm now thinking about creating a
digest both to cut down on the number of messages posted daily, to
minimize my work, and to make it clearer to the people on IDM/csdm that
the messages are not from me directly. (Several people have emailed me
directly asking that I send them the graphics programs from Dover
Graphics, for example.) Any suggestions for minimizing the problem wrt
messages gatewayed to this echo?

George
---
 ~ EZ-Reader 1.21 ~ TXIRRINGAK? Bai, eskerrik asko!
------------------------------
Date:      10-12-89 (12:27)
Subject:  RE: FIDONET ON COMPUSERV
From:      BILL MAYHEW

I don't have the time right now to get into all this (again) and I'm not
sure it's productive anyway...
But in a nutshell, the reasons people pay to access CompuServe are:
(in no particular order)
1. Reliability
2. Timeliness (it is common to get answers to questions within hours,
as opposed to the days it takes here)
3. Content (there may indeed be as many echoes in Fidonet as CIS has
Forums -- I have no way to know... but on the local Fido systems I've used
here, the top-end is less than 50 echoes)
4. Capabilities (the CB club users you mention are attracted to
multi-person interactive communications.  I have _very_ limited use for
this personally but there are people who want it (witness the success of
the various 900 "chat lines" -- CIS is cheaper @ $12.80/hour ($6.80 @
300 baud, which is most appropriate for this purpose) than the $1.00/min
those telephone services charge, though there *is* a "bandwidth difference"))
5. Access to experts (Suitable Solutions is one at-hand example)
6. Availability worldwide
I'm really not interested in arguing the point, though.  As I've said
before, EACH has its strengths and weaknesses and they complement each
other.
-Bill
P.S. the ONLY reason you see more messages from me here is because of
this thread <smile>

--- ConfMail V4.00
* Origin: Still Servicing the Rainbow - Maybee Forever (1:101/1)
------------------------------
Date:      10-10-89 (22:43)
Subject:  RE: BURNING ICS
From:      VAN VANHORN

I have no problems with my modems, they all work fine.  So do the cables.
It's just the line drivers on the busiest part of the whole system.

Besides, we are not talking about any one modem here.  Both Packard Bell
and Novation 1200s, SUPRA 2400, HST 9600, and nul-modem have all been involved
and all the cables and modems continue to work fine on the remaining B board
and other systems.

I wouldn't even much mind putting a new line driver in that position every
year or so (life seems to be running more like five years, actually) if I
could ever find the things.

To All:  Urgent need for small quantity of Rainbow RS-232 line driver ICs,
26LS32-3 or equivalent.

+vanhorn+


---
* Origin: Horsefeathers + Burn a flag for freedom! + (Opus 1:343/30)
------------------------------
Date:      10-10-89 (22:48)
Subject:  MS-DOS 3.1
From:      VAN VANHORN

OPUS runs fine here, Suitable's 3.10 (not the b version so far) with the
Video Fossil installed, not to mention a 512KB SCACHE running to speed up
mail tossing.

I think I heard a rumble that VFOS doesn't get along well with 3.10b, are
you running it?  I am, but certainly don't use it for anything very often,
as I normally don't do much of anything from the console.

+vanhorn+


---
* Origin: Horsefeathers + Burn a flag for freedom! + (Opus 1:343/30)
------------------------------
Date:      10-10-89 (22:55)
Subject:  RE: COMPUSERVE DISCUSSION
From:      VAN VANHORN

Bill,

I have no objection to your participating here, and require no apologies for
sounding like you are "selling" CIS.  I don't much like CIS as a user (or
former user) but understand that you have a certain amount to be proud of
as a FORUM sysop.

On the FIDOnet side, we are proud of what we have built as well.  We offer
a service at a good price, lots of information and generally very reliable.
From time to time, one echo or another gets messed up, but normally not
for long.  Nodes come and nodes go, but that is the nature of a volunteer
organization.

I don't feel that a message trade with the DECPC forum is likely to be feasibl
given the differences between the two systems.  And I strongly don't want
to see a one way system that stems from a stipulation that CIS has different
rights and interests than FIDOnet.

But I see no reason that you should not participate here as you have been.
I am indeed sorry if I gave you that impression.

Van


---
* Origin: Horsefeathers + Burn a flag for freedom! + (Opus 1:343/30)
------------------------------
Date:      10-10-89 (23:01)
Subject:  RE: RE: DEC RAINBOW DISK
From:      VAN VANHORN

George,

There are two, and only two, ways to exchange disks between IBM's family and
ours.

For the PC, the single sided single density option on the PC is readable on
the Rainbow.

For the AT, install RX50.SYS from CONFIG.SYS, and you can read the RX-50
MS-DOS format of the Rainbow.  This turns your A: 1.2meg floppy into half
of an RX-50 drive, which will be the first drive above your last hard drive.
On my AT, C: and D: are on the hard drive, E: is the RX-50 clone, and F:
is an Altos 580 CP/M drive (700K double sided.) You cannot format RX-50 disks
on the AT, but you can read and write to them.

+vanhorn+


---
* Origin: Horsefeathers + Burn a flag for freedom! + (Opus 1:343/30)
------------------------------
Date:      10-11-89 (15:58)
Subject:  MY FRUGALITY
From:      AMER NELSON

Hope I'm not being too much of a pain in the (er) butt.
I appreciate the good work you're doing as SYSOP and all the
time you take answering questions from cheapos like me here on
the ECHO.
I will be getting on CIS again soon.
Keep up the good work -- FOREVER.
++ Amer ++


---
* Origin: Glacier Peak Rainbow, Bellevue, WA - 206/644-8431 (Opus 1:343/3)
------------------------------
Date:      10-12-89 (08:04)
Subject:  DEC RAINBOW 100 DISK FORS
From:      DON MARQUART


> A friend of mine just got hold of a DEC Rainbow 100 running MS-DOS 2.11
and
> he's having troubles with disk formats. It seems that a DEC Rainbow formats
> disks at 400K (how odd) and cannot read normal 360K type DOS disks.
> Trying to read a 360K formatted disk gives the error message "non-DOS
disk
> in drive A:" and if I read a 400K formatted disk in my 386 high-density
> drive it claims that the disk type is a single-sided double density 8
spt
> disk with 14K used somewhere in the middle (Norton utilities).
> What am I doing wrong? Is a DEC Rainbow really that incompatible and more
> important, how do I transfer my software onto the DEC?

Your problem lies in the fact that the RB is indeed a *single sided* 400K
format and has no comprehension of double sided disks.  If you write your
IBM software to single sided IBM disks the RB should be able to read them
just fine.  Suggest that you buld erase your disks and format them for the
IBM single sided format with the DEC prior to transfering the data to them
using the IBM compatible.  Be sure that the multiformat utility is enabled.

Also, don't forget that the RB will not run a lot of the IBM software due
to the difference in the video routines.  There is a program called Code
Blue which offers some video compatibility as does the new version 3.10b
of MS-DOS for the Rainbow which is offered by Suitable Solutions.

Hope this helps some...



--- ConfMail V4.00
* Origin: Club Micro * CompuMatch (303)973-8578 (1:104/888)
------------------------------
Date:      10-12-89
Subject:  PIBTERM
From:      DOUG MURRAY

Hi all,

Would anyone have a more recent version of PIBTERM?  The one I have dates
from 1985.

Thanks,

Doug!



--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Now-Now... Its not polite to POINT  (1:163/226.1)
------------------------------
Date:      10-13-89 (12:37)
Subject:  RE: MS-DOS 3.1
From:      FRANK MALLORY

> I think I heard a rumble that VFOS doesn't get along well
> with 3.10b, are you running it?  I am, but certainly don't
> use it for anything very often, as I normally don't do
> much of anything from the console.

Yes, I use VFOS with MSGED, and that works fine.  Just having problems running
OOPS with it.  Also use OUTER or OUTSID (forget which) that uses VFOS; no
problem with that.

Do you think there could be some kind of bad interaction between VFOS, Opus
1.03, and DOS 3.10b?


---
* Origin: Silver Bullet - Silver Spring, Maryland - 301-622-2247 (Opus 1:109/1
------------------------------