🚀 go-pugleaf

Rainbow EchoMail Digest                     Dec  4, 1989

In this issue:
  RE: MODEM
  SEDT 4
  CAD
  OF RAINBOWS AND 386S...        (2 messages)
  NOT ENOUGH !!                  (3 messages)
  .....
  PARKING THE HD
  YES -- ENOUGH ALREADY
  RE:ADVANTAGES OF FREESTYL      (2 messages)
  RE: REGIS AND FREESTYLE        (2 messages)
  AVAILABILITY OF CHESS PRO      (3 messages)
  RE: GIF
  RE: PARKING THE HD
  RE: SPEEDUP
  EXTRANEOUS NOISE ON THIS
  QUESTIONS                      (2 messages)


  Articles posted to either INFO-DEC-MICRO or comp.sys.dec.micro are
currently gatewayed automatically to the Rainbow Echo on Fidonet; thus,
you do not need to take any special action to respond to articles in
these digests.

  Please send reports of problems or suggestions for improvement of this
digest to GTHEALL@PENNDRLS.UPENN.EDU (ARPA Internet).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:     12-01-89 (10:58)
To:       KELSY CROSSMAN
Subject:  RE: MODEM
From:     BILL MAYHEW

Kelsy,
(This seems odd, but...)
Please check back on the CompuServe DECPC Forum where you originally
posted this request.  I've found two people who know about the Concord
modems who have volunteered some help, but who are awaiting more information
from you.
-Bill


--- QM v1.00
* Origin: Still Servicing the Rainbow - Maybee Forever (1:101/1.0)

------------------------------
Date:     12-01-89
To:       GEORGE THEALL
Subject:  SEDT 4
From:     GEORGE DAHLCO, SYSOP 102/

In a message of <Nov 28 13:50>, GEORGE THEALL (1:273/203) writes:

GT>From: agate!stew.ssl.berkeley.edu!link@apple.com  (Richard Link)
GT>Organization: University of California, Berkeley
GT>
GT>Can I get SEDT 4.xx (not sure of the newest version; I have 3.3)
GT>by FTP? Otherwise, are there any California BBS's which have it?
GT>
GT>Please e-mail your response.
GT>
GT>Thanks,
GT>Richard Link, Ph.D.
GT>Space Sciences Laboratory

Richard,

Yes, I have the latest version as of a month or so ago; just file request
SEDT4*.* from 102/138.

-George, 102/138-

--- msged 1.998z
* Origin: Western Region VAX EC, RAINBOW/PDP-11 Echo Hub (1:102/138.1)

------------------------------
Date:     12-01-89
To:       AMER NELSON
Subject:  CAD
From:     DAVID STRICKLER

In a message of <14 Nov 89 12:02:41>, Amer Nelson (1:343/3) writes:

AN>I think the message I got may have read --
AN>  Insufficient memory to run ZALLOC
AN>Not that the exact wording matters that much -- you get the
AN>drift.

Sounds like a memory problem that they had with UTE. Try using up
some memory with SwitchIt or something like that and trying it again. The
solution is to USE MORE memory, lathough the error says otherwise. Aren't
computers so logical? :>

AN>Thanks for all your efforts re the Rainbow Echo -- how else could
AN>I get my nit-picky questions answered?
AN>++ Amer ++

Glad to help out!

David Strickler
Sysop of 101/45
Midnight DEC (Boston)
(617)739-0708 [Voice]

--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: Midnight DEC  (1:101/45)

------------------------------
Date:     12-01-89
To:       DON MARQUART
Subject:  OF RAINBOWS AND 386S...
From:     DAVID STRICKLER


DRI is Digital Research, but what is SCO?

David Strickler
Sysop of 101/45
Midnight DEC (Boston)
(617)739-0708 [Voice]

--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: Midnight DEC  (1:101/45)

------------------------------
Date:     12-01-89
To:       JOHN LELLIS
Subject:  OF RAINBOWS AND 386S...
From:     DAVID STRICKLER

In a message of <15 Nov 89  19:22:05>, John Lellis (1:106/503) writes:
JL>You might try VMIX.  It supports VT100s and purports to run on the 386
JL>(though I have personally only seen it run on 286 machines).  Not
JL>exactly a transparent DOS window, but it did seem functional last time
JL>I looked at it.
JL>

Is that a MSDOS shell? In otherwords, will it run the DOS applications I
write?


David Strickler
Sysop of 101/45
Midnight DEC (Boston)
(617)739-0708 [Voice]

--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: Midnight DEC  (1:101/45)

------------------------------
Date:     12-01-89
To:       MARK BORNSTEIN
Subject:  NOT ENOUGH !!
From:     DAVID STRICKLER

In a message of <20 Nov 89 10:37:26>, Mark Bornstein (1:101/111) writes:

MB>      It is really not my collection rate which is phenomenal. It is
MB>rather, the thousands of wonderful Rainbow customers who it was never
MB>necessary to ship C.O.D. to. This applies to all those individuals as
MB>well as companies, both large and small who it was my pleasure to deal
MB>with.

OK, people... Lets let this one drop. I remember an antique lamp
at you desk, Mark, with many COD chits. A safe place that you stored them
until the checks arrived fomr UPS. A clever system, I have yet to find.
If they guy stiffed you, then he is a bum. However, this petty bickering
is not welcome here. You've got Geoff's address, and I would guess his number.
Take it up on your own time.


--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: Midnight DEC  (1:101/45)

------------------------------
Date:     12-01-89
To:       GEOFF REED
Subject:  .....
From:     DAVID STRICKLER

In a message of <26 Nov 89  10:50:40>, Geoff Reed (1:6000/0) writes:

GR> MB>It seems mighty  strange that you come out of the woodwork, a LONG
GR>time after the problem.  I know Mark has mentioned it
GR> MB>many times in this echo and I have heard him say it other times also.
GR> MB>
GR>  I had argued with mr bournstein about this before, I have never
GR>received 3 invoices, and i have never received any messages as he
GR>claims

Tell you what. I am so anxious to hear Mark shut up, that if you FAX me the
recipet from the banks showing it was cashed (from and back please), I will
publicly state that I have recieved it, and announce the message closed.

Never in my life have I seen so much useless dripple over $23!

My FAX number is 617-277-3041


David Strickler
Sysop of 101/45
Midnight DEC (Boston)
(617)739-0708 [Voice]

--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: Midnight DEC  (1:101/45)

------------------------------
Date:     12-02-89 (13:06)
To:       GEORGE THEALL
Subject:  PARKING THE HD
From:     MARK BORNSTEIN

In a message of <29 Nov 89 18:07:00>, GEORGE THEALL (1:273/203) writes:

>Does anyone know of a public-domain program to park the hard disk
>on a Rainbow? If so, I would appreciate receiving information on
>availability.

Public domain program called "BYE.COM" Available for dl or f/req
here and most other bbses. Remember, it is a .COM file of about 500 bytes.
...mark

--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Island Logistics (617) 631-3304 (1:101/111)

------------------------------
Date:     12-02-89 (12:19)
To:       GEORGE THEALL
Subject:  YES -- ENOUGH ALREADY
From:     MARK BORNSTEIN

In a message of <29 Nov 89 18:07:00>, GEORGE THEALL (1:273/203) writes:

>   If this is all it's about, then I'll gladly send you the $23 so you
>can have your %$)(@#$ Chinese food. Just leave your address in a reply
>and promise to consider the matter dropped.
>
>   Otherwise chill out, fella! You'll sleep better at night.

I always sleep better knowing that 'boobs' have been put in their
proper place. If you think that "food" is what this thing is all about then
you do not understand things like "principles, matters of honor, gentleman,
and men who are true to their word."
...mark

--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Island Logistics (617) 631-3304 (1:101/111)

------------------------------
Date:     12-02-89 (12:26)
To:       DAVID STRICKLER
Subject:  NOT ENOUGH !!
From:     MARK BORNSTEIN

In a message of <01 Dec 89 23:44:36>, David Strickler (1:101/45) writes:
> MB>      It is really not my collection rate which is phenomenal. It is
> MB>rather, the thousands of wonderful Rainbow customers who it was never
> MB>necessary to ship C.O.D. to. This applies to all those individuals as
> MB>well as companies, both large and small who it was my pleasure to deal with
>If they guy stiffed you, then he is a bum. However, this petty
>bickering is not welcome here. You've got Geoff's address, and I would
>guess his number. Take it up on your own time.

Let us get priorities straight here. I warned people that they might
get cheated if they deal with geoff reed (as he has stiffed 2 dealers that
I know of.) Next he entered some ridiculous buffoonery in reply to which Mark
Buda graciously replied. Enter newcomer Theall objecting to my wanting to
make sure other Rainbow people do not get cheated by him. (A fit place to
do so I might add.) This is not about my getting cheated, and this is not
an attempt on my part to get paid. (You of all people should know I don't
need the money and that I would spend it taking you and Art to dinner.) My
"own time" was already taken up almost 2 years ago trying to get paid. This
is not something for my "own time."
I just want to make sure that he does not take advantage of anyone
else. This whole thread would have ceased had not Theall blustered in here.
That is all. (Besides you know how contentious I am, and this echo needed
some spice.)
...mark


--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Island Logistics (617) 631-3304 (1:101/111)

------------------------------
Date:     12-02-89
To:       FRANK MALLORY
Subject:  RE:ADVANTAGES OF FREESTYL
From:     ART MCCLINTON

It is a bug fix release.  I often found that 1.0 would incorrectly handle
smooth right edge.  1.5 fixes it.  Also if you every fill up
a disk drive 1.0 will lose the output file.  1.5 will warn and often allow
the file to be saved on another disk.

--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: The Pot of Gold - (703-359-6549) (1:109/103)

------------------------------
Date:     12-02-89
To:       GEORGE THEALL
Subject:  RE: REGIS AND FREESTYLE
From:     ART MCCLINTON

Regis is a graphics command language developed by DEC for the graphics on
the VT125/VT240/VT340 terminals, GIGI terminal, and several other plotters.
The Rainbow REGIS product allows a Rainbow to emulate most of teh features
of these other terminals.  It requires a graphics card, supports both color
and monichrome monitors, and the LA50 and LA100 printers.  The software
was developed for Digital by Polygon and runs under CPM or MS-DOS.  It was
sold both by Digital and directly by Polygon Associates, inc. St Louis MO
314/576-7709

Freestyle is a word processing program.  Writes to the program have bee sold
several times.  At the present, I am unable to figure out who owns the rights.
It is not in the public domain, but I can not figure out where to obtain
copies.

--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: The Pot of Gold - (703-359-6549) (1:109/103)

------------------------------
Date:     12-02-89
To:       ALL
Subject:  AVAILABILITY OF CHESS PRO
From:     ART MCCLINTON

My 16 year old son just dug out the 14 year old Interact computer and hooked
it up to the TV.  When I asked him why, he said he wanted to play chess
and since we sold the Atari that the only Chess Games was the one on the
Interact.  Since we have Rainbows in each room, I am looking for a Chess
game that runs on the rainbow.
thanks

--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: The Pot of Gold - (703-359-6549) (1:109/103)

------------------------------
Date:     12-02-89 (18:27)
To:       AMER NELSON
Subject:  RE: GIF
From:     MIKE JANSON

THere's really a GIFviewer for the Rainbow? *cheer* , where can I get one..I
need(and I mean need it!) , I'm currently located in Phoenix ,AZ, is there
a way I can get it? I really want it! Badly..I would thank a million times
if I can get it from you...THANKS A LOT! See yA!


---
* Origin: Genoa City (602) 945-0869 [Tempe, AZ] (Opus 1:114/3)

------------------------------
Date:     12-02-89 (07:29)
To:       GEORGE THEALL
Subject:  RE: PARKING THE HD
From:     DAN OREILLY

There are a couple out there, but I think your best bet is to get MS-DOS V3.1
- the FDISK utility will park the heads.  Somewhere in the Rainbow section
on this BBS I think I've got a utility to do that for MS-DOS V2.11 as well.
You might want to dial up and take a quick look.

DanO

--- QuickBBS v2.04
* Origin: The CS-DEPOT BBS System (719)550-9305 (1:128/58)

------------------------------
Date:     12-01-89 (22:26)
To:       CARL HOUSEMAN
Subject:  RE: SPEEDUP
From:     FRANK MALLORY

CH> I would doubt very much that a kit designed for a PC would work in the
CH> Rainbow.  However, if you want to drop me the technical details in the
CH> mail I'll be happy to give you a more informed opinion.

I'm trying to get more details; I will send them when available.

CH> The biggest problem, besides the more mundane matters of not having
CH> fast enough RAM, ROM or peripheral chips, is that of synchronizing with
CH> the Z80, whose speed hasn't changed.  That, and I'd expect that Jerry
CH> Miller of Suitable Solutions has probably looked in to this and reached
CH> the same conclusions.

The 150ns DRAMs are capable of running at 8MHz with zero wait states; don't
know about the soldered-in memory chips on the main board.  I believe there
IS a faster Z80 available; I've seen them listed in the Computer Shopper.

It would be worthwhile to bring the speed up to 8MHz if it could be done
for $80 or so; this would let the V20-8 run at its rated speed.


--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Silver Bullet - Silver Spring, Maryland - 301-622-2247 (1:109/123)

------------------------------
Date:     12-03-89
To:       DAVID STRICKLER
Subject:  EXTRANEOUS NOISE ON THIS
From:     ART MCCLINTON

Dave

I doubt if you will be able to get Mark to to stop.  I have been a faithful
reader and sometimes contributor to this list since the begining.  If my
memory serves me right this is not the first time that Mark has gotten into
a shouting match with someone that "stiffed" him.  The last one eventually
quieted down when Bob Catt moved to England.  However after about a year
some machine unfortunately leaked a group of old messages onto the wire
and Mark started off again.  I suggest that since Mark will respond to anything
placed on the wire.  But will eventually tire if no one respnds to him,
that we all not respond to any messages concerning the issue.


--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: The Pot of Gold - (703-359-6549) (1:109/103)

------------------------------
Date:     12-03-89
To:       GEORGE THEALL
Subject:  QUESTIONS
From:     FRANK MALLORY

GT>    *If* you can get a hard disk controller for your machine, Rodger, you
GT> can install in your system almost any hard disk that uses MFM or RLL

But if you choose a RLL-capable drive, you can expect to get only about tow
thirds of its rated capacity when used on a Rainbow (which only handles the
MFM format).

GT> encoding. The Seagate ST225 20MB drive, for example, that's sold for PC
GT> compatible systems will work fine. So too will the ST241 38MB drive.


I think you mean ST251 40MB drive.

GT>    Another possibility is to buy a used hard-disk equipped Rainbow.
GT> Prices here in the US are around $400+ for a 100B with  hard disk. You'd
GT> not only get the controller card but also have spare parts around in
GT> case something in your current machine fails.

A good suggestion for domestic users; but I think there would be a lot of
red tape and other difficulties in exporting a complete system to Europe;
also, the cost of shipping would drive the price up substantially.

GT>    The June 1988 issue of _Rainbow News_ also contained a comprehensive
GT> list of programs known to run on Rainbows but not advertised as such. I
GT> didn't see anything about SmallTalk mentioned. I imagine Actor would run
GT> under Windows, but it might require the 286-board from Suitable
GT> Solutions.

SmallTalk is the programming environment originating at Xerox PARC which
evolved into Windows; I don't believe there is a Rainbow implementation.
Actor, on the other hand, is Windows compatible so should run fine under MS-WIND
on the Rainbow, as you stated.

GT>  ~ EZ 1.23b4 #263 ~ TXIRRINGAK? Bai, eskerrik asko!

George, when are you going to tell us the meaning of these phrases in your
origin line (or at least, what language they are in)?  I'd like to *know*
when/if I am being insulted!


--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Silver Bullet - Silver Spring, Maryland - 301-622-2247 (1:109/123)

------------------------------
Date:     12-03-89
To:       ART MCCLINTON
Subject:  RE:ADVANTAGES OF FREESTYL
From:     FRANK MALLORY

AM> It is a bug fix release.  I often found that 1.0 would incorrectly
AM> handle smooth right edge.  1.5 fixes it.  Also if you every fill up
AM> a disk drive 1.0 will lose the output file.  1.5 will warn and often
AM> allow the file to be saved on another disk.

I can see those fixes might be useful to some users, but they are of no use
to me.  Too bad they didn't fix it to allow entry of paths for file names.

I have a real screwy problem with it, tho.  I installed it on my 'bow at
the office, and it works fine there; functions just like 1.0, except perhaps
one of the print defaults is different.  But on my 'bow at home, it insists
on starting up in Insert mode and slipping back there after you do practically
anything.  I thought maybe I  had installed them differently, so I arced up
the complete FS subdirectory from the one at work and then unarced it on the
one at home; no soap, they still operate differently.  Wierd!  The machines
are the same except the one at home has a 40MB drive and 8087 board vs a 20MB
drive and no 8087 on the one at work.


--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Silver Bullet - Silver Spring, Maryland - 301-622-2247 (1:109/123)

------------------------------
Date:     12-03-89
To:       ART MCCLINTON
Subject:  RE: REGIS AND FREESTYLE
From:     FRANK MALLORY

AM> Freestyle is a word processing program.  Writes to the program have bee
AM> sold several times.  At the present, I am unable to figure out who owns
AM> the rights.  It is not in the public domain, but I can not figure out
AM> where to obtain copies.

Freestyle currently belongs to Summa Technologies (914)679-5951.


--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Silver Bullet - Silver Spring, Maryland - 301-622-2247 (1:109/123)

------------------------------
Date:     12-03-89
To:       ART MCCLINTON
Subject:  AVAILABILITY OF CHESS PRO
From:     FRANK MALLORY


You can download two of them from this board, Art.  CHESDEMO.ZIP is a demonstati
of the CICA chess program for the Rainbow, and DOSCHESS.ZIP is a shareware
or PD chess program.  I haven't tried either of them.

PS - I have a bunch of programs for the Rainbow here.  Either use the Opus
L)ocate command to find the subject you are interested in; or download SBFILES.L
from area 20 and use SEDT to find your keywords.


--- msged 1.99L MSC
* Origin: Silver Bullet - Silver Spring, Maryland - 301-622-2247 (1:109/123)

------------------------------
Date:     12-04-89 (18:54)
To:       MARK BORNSTEIN
Subject:  NOT ENOUGH !!
From:     GEORGE THEALL

MB>Let us get priorities straight here.

   Hear, hear! Is this Echo about the DEC Rainbow or collection of bad
debts?

MB>I warned people that they might
MB>get cheated if they deal with geoff reed (as he has stiffed 2 dealers that
MB>I know of.)

   Wrong, Bornstein. Your messages are viewed as nothing but vindictive
libel, and my advice to Geoff is that he consult a lawyer if you continue
in this fashion and that together they take the matter up with the IFNA.

   And let's get another thing straight. *NO ONE* in recent memory
soliticed your advice about dealing with Geoff. Nor did Geoff offer to
sell anything over the net. The same rationale that you've employed
could be used by anyone to, say, continually post that "The owner of
Mark Industries is liable to slander anyone who buys something from
there so stay clear!". I wonder what your reaction would have been to
such a claim were Mark Industries still in business. Probably much like
mine was to your posts - to attribute them to some disgruntled individual
and give them little credibility.

MB>Next he entered some ridiculous buffoonery in reply to which Mark
MB>Buda graciously replied.

  Incorrect again, Bornstein. You've overlooked your second message to
me, a message from Amer Nelson in which Amer said he wished you'd drop
the subject. Then there was your reply to one of Geoff's own messages
asking for info about CD Rom equipment. All throughout you altered the
subject lines indicating that your mindless tirade would continue -
"NOT ENOUGH", "OF BAD APPLES AND THINGS", "STIFFS", etc... No, the next
several steps were certainly not taken by Geoff.

   All throught this mess, I've noticed only two messages from Geoff
himself. Admirably, he has resisted lowering himself to your level and
responding to your attacks in kind.

MB>Enter newcomer Theall objecting to my wanting to
MB>make sure other Rainbow people do not get cheated by him. (A fit place to
MB>do so I might add.)

   Perhaps being a "newcomer" somehow belittles my opinions in your
mind??? To steal from another user's eloquent inquiry: Just what have
you done for the Rainbow community recently, Bornstein?

    And since you're putting words in my mouth, let me correct you once
again. I do not object to your warning people about bad business deals.
I *do* object, however, that your warnings have been *unsolicited* and
*continual*.

MB>This is not about my getting cheated, and this is not
MB>an attempt on my part to get paid.

   Sure seems that way to me. And if it's not, then when will your
tirade end?

MB>This whole thread would have ceased had not Theall blustered in here.

   A new venue of attack, eh Bornstein? You can't extort money from
Geoff so it's on to someone else, is it?

   This whole thread started because YOU, Mr. Bornstein, saw fit to air
your petty concerns in this forum. Had you instead heeded the advice of
Amer Nelson, myself, Rodger Lea, or Kevin Barkes, you would have stopped
after having acheived your stated purpose - raising doubts about Geoff's
honesty in our minds.

    But no, you haven't. Well, then, congratulations, Bornstein. You're
being honoured with the first spot in my kill file. Now I won't have to
read your ravings ever again. Fire away. See just how much you can
annoy the other users here. It will be a bit one-sided, though, which
might take all the fun out of it for you.


George
---
 ~ EZ 1.23b4 #263 ~ Denok batera - PRESOAK KALERA!!!
==============================================================================
Date: 12-04-89 (20:39)           Number: 74        SATALINK (tm) Your Ult
  To: ART MCCLINTON              Refer#: 616
From: GEORGE THEALL                Read: YES
Subj: AVAILABILITY OF CHESS PRO    Conf: (74) fRAINBOW
------------------------------------------------------------------------
AM>Since we have Rainbows in each room, I am looking for a Chess
AM>game that runs on the rainbow.

   There are two in PENNRUG's pd software library. One is a demo of
Chess Ingenuity, the other supposedly contains six levels of difficulty.

   I don't play chess much, myself, so I have no idea what they're like.
I can, though, upload one to a local (to Philadelphia) bbs if you'd care
to spend a few dimes.

George
---
 ~ EZ 1.23b4 #263 ~ TXIRRINGAK? Bai, eskerrik asko!
==============================================================================
Date: 12-04-89 (20:44)           Number: 74        SATALINK (tm) Your Ult
  To: FRANK MALLORY              Refer#: 621
From: GEORGE THEALL                Read: YES
Subj: QUESTIONS                    Conf: (74) fRAINBOW
------------------------------------------------------------------------
FM>GT>    *If* you can get a hard disk controller for your machine, Rodger, you
FM>GT> can install in your system almost any hard disk that uses MFM or RLL
FM>
FM>But if you choose a RLL-capable drive, you can expect to get only about tow
FM>thirds of its rated capacity when used on a Rainbow (which only handles the
FM>MFM format).

  Oh, right. I forgot about this. And then there's the problem of large
disks under DOS v2.xx. You can't use more than 32MB of the disk for DOS
(anybody using CP/M these days?) unless you move up to v3.10.

FM>GT>    Another possibility is to buy a used hard-disk equipped Rainbow.
FM>GT> Prices here in the US are around $400+ for a 100B with  hard disk. You'd
FM>GT> not only get the controller card but also have spare parts around in
FM>GT> case something in your current machine fails.
FM>
FM>A good suggestion for domestic users; but I think there would be a lot of
FM>red tape and other difficulties in exporting a complete system to Europe;
FM>also, the cost of shipping would drive the price up substantially.

  I hadn't thought about customs. Hmmm, how difficult would it be since
he's in France? (But then, that's run by a bunch of leftist Socialists,
isn't it? :-) Some friends of mine have shipped PC's to Spain by sea. I
think shipping cost about $50 and took 1 month. Of course, the Spanish
customs did hassle them a lot.

FM>GT>  ~ EZ 1.23b4 #263 ~ TXIRRINGAK? Bai, eskerrik asko!
FM>
FM>George, when are you going to tell us the meaning of these phrases in your
FM>origin line (or at least, what language they are in)?  I'd like to *know*
FM>when/if I am being insulted!

   I had forgotten about this, Frank. I use a few different taglines,
several in foreign languages and reflecting my interests in Spain and
bicycling. (Odd combination, no?) None would be generally considered
insulting. The one you've quoted above is in Basque (from the northeastern
corner of Spain) and translates as "BICYCLING, Yes, thanks!" The other
that you had wondered about back in October was "Denok Batera, Presoak
Kalera". It's a combination of two Basque protest slogans which translate
basically as "All Together Now, Free the Prisoners", presumably referring
to the suspected ETA terrorists held in Spanish prisons.


George
---
 ~ EZ 1.23b4 #263 ~ Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

------------------------------