🚀 go-pugleaf

jcm@pegasus.bl-els.att.com (-John McMillan) wrote:
>>David Thomas Richard Given <dtrg@st-andrews.ac.uk> wrote:

[text redacted at will]

>>DANGER!
>>Low level formatting an IDE drive with the wrong program can royally 
>>screw it. IDE drives rely on different tracks having different numbers of 
>>sectors to get the data-per-track as high as possible. Low level 
>>formatting can undo this, and reduce the capacity by 50%.
>>
>>Modern IDE drives should NEVER be low-level formatted (besides, to do 
>>this, you need dedicated hardware).
>>
>>XT hard drives and SCSI ones, yes. If you try to do this for an IDE 
>>drive, it'll probably just purge it.

[llf == low-level format]

The original post concerned a WD Caviar drive, ie "modern", which you
say to NEVER llf.  Then you say it requires dedicated hardware to do
it (true), implying 'you' can't do it even if 'you' wanted to.  Can
we all say moot?  What you wrote, while generally correct, was likely
hard to follow by someone lacking knowledge of HD "history".  If
you're going to shout DANGER!, it would be more helpful to clearly
explain what the danger is, and who's at risk.

>Oh my.  Let's see: Seagate distributes a program to low-level format
>IDE drives -- I FTP'd one down a year ago.  WD [reportedly] does the
>same.  And we're supposed to accept this yoyo's warnings of impending
>doom on this planet if we format our IDE drives?

See above.  The phrase 'llf' is often used incorrectly, as here,
although to be fair the meaning has changed over time.  We'll stick
to the current meaning, ie from the point of view of a HD producer
(see below).

>Now let's think about it:
Good idea.
>1) "Tracks" are formatted: formatting a disk is just formatting each
>	track on that disk.  There aren't any strikingly new technologies
>	on IDE disks: these are "regular" disk technologies with
>	regular controller technologies and a special IDE adapter
>	interfacing the disk and a local cache to the IDE controller.
>2) The s/w to format a track is negligable: you make a track-image and
>	perform a format write.  The original BIOS's were capable of
>	this repetitive track formatting in a negligable stub of s/w:
>	it's a -small- task, not a big one.

>Just "possibly" the IDE adapter -- which knows the size of its drive's
>variable tracks -- performs today's trivial task of creating each track's
>image and writing it.

>A) I don't -know- how the IDE's are reformatted.  The above is pretty
Obviously.
>	plausible: the BIOS couldn't attempt to format each track of
>	the IDE drive, but it could just ask the IDE controller if it
>	would please be so kind.  But... it probably DOESN'T, or there
>	wouldn't be special WD and Seagate programs.

>B) It has been posted in this thread that the disk drive maufacturers
>	place the s/w to format drives in their BBS's.  This poster has
>	received and run that software to "purge" his IDE drives -- 
>	whatever that means.  (Perhaps they were "binged" first.)  I've
>	pulled this s/w and used it.  Others have reported doing so.

>	-If- purging his disk low-level re-formatted it, then -why- does
>	this latest poster assert that special equipment is necessary to
>	re-format?  If he doesn't think it was re-formatted, what does
>	he think was done?

>Summary: get the correct s/w from the manufacturer and thrill to the
>excitement of re-formatting your disk.  Of course, it may be as useless
>for you as it was for me -- the disk was just as troubled afterwards
>as before.  And, if you're ever in St. Andrews, Scotland, (1) be amazed
>at the roughness of its historical golf course, (2) enjoy the school 
>and the ruined church [cathedral?], and (3) don't ask for directions or
>IDE information!
Did somebody's HD have a seek error into a golf newsgroup?
Ref (3): Don't worry, I won't.

  ***** Following text extracted from a Quantum FAQ:

Q: How do I low level format the drive? 
A: You cannot low level format the disk drive. The servo, sector
layout and defect management information contained in the low level
format is designed to last the life of the drive. This information
and the way it is written cannot be duplicated in any way outside of
the factory. Drives manufactured today ignore low level routines.

Q: I have a low level routine and it seems to run okay, why? 
A: Some manufactures do have routines they label as a low level
formatter. These routines actually perform write-read verifies of the
drive's user data sectors, they don't actually low level format the
drive. 

  ***** Following text extracted from Western Digital web site,
  ***** discussing installation:

Preparing the Caviar Drive for Use

Your Caviar drive has been low-level formatted.  The hard drive is
ready to set up and is defect-free.  The drive must be partitioned
and high-level formatted so it can accept files.  This section
provides guidelines for preparing your drive.  Consult your operating
system documentation for complete information on preparing the drive
for use with your operating system.
--
Cheers, John
[mail]
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