🚀 go-pugleaf

Garry Wiegand wrote:

>       Does dust inside a computer make any earthly difference?**

Dust could block airflow and thus let the chips heat up, in theory
shortening their lives. Dust in the power supply could create
paths for leakage current at the relatively high working voltages
there.

> 
>       Has there ever been a computer which died of dust?

Not AFAIK.

In article <qru1mt8d2d9a6eoqapumuqkhg16spfc0p5@4ax.com>,
 Garry Wiegand <gnews11@ithaca.com> wrote:

> I have a new female friend who insists upon carefully vacuuming the inside of
> her computer, covering it up carefully, etc. For fear of dust in the works.
> 
> So... I have a very very important question which, as far as I can tell, and
> considering the large size and importance of the dust-cover industry, has
> never been asked in the usenet news before*:
> 
>       Does dust inside a computer make any earthly difference?**
> 
>       Has there ever been a computer which died of dust?

It's hard to tell. But note that computers filter out dust for some 
reason. 

When I happen to open my computers to add new RAM or change a disk 
drive, I usually turn on my vacuum cleaner and suck out as much of the 
dust as I can. Especially near the fan, filter, and heat sinks.

Oh, and all kinds of crud falls on my keyboard. I _definitely_ vacuum 
this usually every time I vacuum. (My Miele vacuum is so strong that it 
even sucked off one of the keycaps...I had to root around in the dust 
bag to retrieve it. So now I cut down the intensity by opening a valve, 
and I'm careful to use the brush attachment instead of the direct 
vacuum.)

--Tim May

-- 
Timothy C. May         tcmay@got.net        Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns

Garry Wiegand schrieb in Nachricht ...

>Does dust inside a computer make any earthly difference?**


Yes.

>Has there ever been a computer which died of dust?


Yes.

That was the short answer.
The long one is that dust is deadly -- for all sorts of electric
equipment -- for two reasons:

First (and that is the most important as far as computers are concerned),
dust in larger amounts (i.e., in the traditional bunnies) will eventually
clog up what little ventilation there is, causing the already high
temperature in the machine to rise further. This may -- and will in the long
run -- cause somponents to die from overheating. This is especially true for
the average off-the-shelf PC with its rather primitive airflow design (if
any at all) and its tiny standard ventilators (usually pretty small ones in
the power supply, and that's it).
This is no reason to panic -- a thorough cleaning is required every six
months or so unless you live right in the middle of the desert. Get rid of
your dust bunnies by vacuuming the machine out *without* touching any
machine parts with the vacuum hose. It is good practice to *blow* out dust
with compressed air, since the vacuum method may cause static electricity to
rise beyond the frying point.... which brings us to

Second: What is "dust"? What we consider to be a nuisance isn't exactly a
uniform matter in itself. It can contain small particles of all sorts, and
quite a few of them may be electrically conductive. If a grime layer guilds
up inside the computer, it is likely to eventually bridge contacts -- and
there we go. Bzzzzz, fry, and the well-known smell of burnt equipment will
warn you just one second too late... Furthermore, any conductive particles
(metal dust, carbon dust an dthe like) will create pretty strong electrical
fields if in motion  (e.g., whirled around by the fans inside your machine),
which can again result in static discharges, and no electronic qeuipment
likes that, either.

However, we're talking real *dust* here, not what falls on the cmputer
during a night off -- the problem isn't avoided by dust covers over the
equipment when it's off (htis is merely for the cosmetic side of the
matter...), but dust in operation, sucked in through every gap and crack in
the casing. And you wouldn't believe what size of dust bunnies you can get
out of floppy drives in machines that haven't been cleaned for a year or
so...

That said I have to repeat what I said above -- don't panic!
Avoid build-ups of dust by cleaning the machine every six months or so, and
that will do. No need to give it the weekly rinse... but then some people do
wash their cars every friday afternoon, whether it has been moved or not...

Helmut

In article <qru1mt8d2d9a6eoqapumuqkhg16spfc0p5@4ax.com>,
Garry Wiegand <gnews11@ithaca.com> says:

>      Does dust inside a computer make any earthly difference?**

Dust forms a heat-retaining blanket if it's allowed to get thick enough,
and this can shorten the life of the warmer components.

FWIW, I'm in my machines all the time for HW upgrades and the like, and I
use a compressor or air cans to blow 'em out when I do.

	-Kenny

-- 
Kenneth R. Crudup   Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting, Washington, D.C.
Home1: PO Box 914     		Silver Spring, MD 20910-0914   kenny@panix.com
Home2: 38010 Village Cmn. #217  Fremont, CA 94536-7525		(510) 745-8181
Work:  See: "Home2". The hell with slow Bay Area drivers!	(510) 745-0101

"Garry Wiegand" <gnews11@ithaca.com> wrote in message
news:qru1mt8d2d9a6eoqapumuqkhg16spfc0p5@4ax.com...
> I have a new female friend who insists upon carefully vacuuming the inside
of
> her computer, covering it up carefully, etc. For fear of dust in the
works.
>
> So... I have a very very important question which, as far as I can tell,
and
> considering the large size and importance of the dust-cover industry, has
> never been asked in the usenet news before*:
>
>       Does dust inside a computer make any earthly difference?**

Yes

>       Has there ever been a computer which died of dust?

Many.

Once the dust accumulates, then develops enough humidity, it conducts (or
semi-conducts) electricity. I have ressurected many a machine which was
beginning to flake-out by opening it up and blowing out the dust with
compressed(clean, dry) air. The worst culprits for generating the
killer-dust are typical industrial carpeting materials.

So, be clean! Enjoy Life!

L

In article <qru1mt8d2d9a6eoqapumuqkhg16spfc0p5@4ax.com>,
 Garry Wiegand <gnews11@ithaca.com> wrote:

  > I have a new female friend who insists upon carefully vacuuming the 
  > inside of her computer, covering it up carefully, etc. For fear of 
  > dust in the works.
  > 

<snip>

I read somewhere that vacuuming out delicate electronic gear is a bad 
idea because a static charge-- more than sufficient to fry 
microcircuitry--can build up at the business end of the hose. I haven't 
actually heard of this happening to anyone, but even if it's rare, it 
only takes one time to really screw you up.

Better to use compressed air in the machine and then vacuum up what 
blows out, no?

Ever hear of the term "gum up the works"?
I just replaced a pair of processor fans that wore out from excessive wear,
bout 2 months ago. Ceramic fans. Bad anyway. But they wear out because crud
gets in the works. All sorts of startup problems that were eventually
attributed to the "rusty" fans groaning to start up every morning. My new
ball bearing fans just started "groaning and creeking" this morning. Got out
the compressed air, blew out the whole system, and "voila", no noise.
Carpeted office. Lots of dust bunnies. Monthly blow job at a minimum!

"Garry Wiegand" <gnews11@ithaca.com> wrote in message
news:qru1mt8d2d9a6eoqapumuqkhg16spfc0p5@4ax.com...
> I have a new female friend who insists upon carefully vacuuming the inside
of
> her computer, covering it up carefully, etc. For fear of dust in the
works.
>
> So... I have a very very important question which, as far as I can tell,
and
> considering the large size and importance of the dust-cover industry, has
> never been asked in the usenet news before*:
>
>       Does dust inside a computer make any earthly difference?**
>
>       Has there ever been a computer which died of dust?
>
> thanks,
>
> Garry
> -------
>
> *I found -many- discussions about the best ways to polish up those old
> insides... some people wash by hand with alcohol, some people even run
cards
> through the dishwasher (mild cycle!) and then put them out in the sun. I
> think I better not let my friend see those conversations...
>
> **We're in the San Francisco area - a cool climate.

Have a friend who decided to resurrect a 386 on a lark. Wouldn't boot,
etc.
He had it stored out in the garage. He took a look inside and found
mouse turds. Took em off one by one until he found the culprit.

mike
000000000000000000000000

Garry Wiegand wrote:
> 
> I have a new female friend who insists upon carefully vacuuming the inside of
> her computer, covering it up carefully, etc. For fear of dust in the works.
> 
> So... I have a very very important question which, as far as I can tell, and
> considering the large size and importance of the dust-cover industry, has
> never been asked in the usenet news before*:
> 
>       Does dust inside a computer make any earthly difference?**
> 
>       Has there ever been a computer which died of dust?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Garry
> -------
> 
> *I found -many- discussions about the best ways to polish up those old
> insides... some people wash by hand with alcohol, some people even run cards
> through the dishwasher (mild cycle!) and then put them out in the sun. I
> think I better not let my friend see those conversations...
> 
> **We're in the San Francisco area - a cool climate.

Garry Wiegand wrote the quoted material below:

"       Does dust inside a computer make any earthly difference?**
"       Has there ever been a computer which died of dust?

By now you've gotten lots of yesses to your questions.  I also say yes.  
One thing I've used to keep dust down so that I don't have to go vacuum
the inside of the computer is to put thin foam (the kind used in packing
computer parts) along the various places where air enters the case.  
These foam pieces are of the kind that easily passes air (you can check by
blowing through a piece).

When I take my computer apart to upgrade a modem or something, I notice
that a good amount of dust has stuck to the foam.  I then take the pieces
ou and shake them vigorously until all the dust dislodges, then I put them
back in.  

Dust is largely made up of human skin cells.  Skin cells conduct
electricity, so dust can actually short out components, or at the very
least cause voltage leaks.


-- 
(C) 2001                         If you make people think they're thinking
David Kaye                   they'll love you: but if you really make them
                                   think, they'll hate you. -- Don Marquis

David Kaye wrote:
> When I take my computer apart to upgrade a modem or something, I notice
> that a good amount of dust has stuck to the foam.  I then take the pieces
> ou and shake them vigorously until all the dust dislodges, then I put them
> back in.

This is key.  Like your homegrown solution, some computers come with
filters on the air inputs, but it is important to clean the filters
regularly, or the computer will have inadaquate airflow and overheat.  I
think this is the reason (aside from cost) that more computers don't use
filters: dust on the inside, while a potential problem, is less likely
to cause a problem than clogged air filters.  (And many people wouldn't
clean the filters often enough, if at all.)

Dust inside a computer case and on its components is a normal condition.
Using some common sense as a gauge, vacuum or blow out the dust as needed.

Removing a thick film of dust can make a difference as far as heat
dissipation.  Dust removal just to make it tidy inside is just that,
tidiness.  The amount of dust that defines the difference between heat
dissipation and tidiness can be purely subjective.

--
Dave
"Its not what they tell you.
Its what they don't tell you that will bite."
"Garry Wiegand" <gnews11@ithaca.com> wrote in message
news:qru1mt8d2d9a6eoqapumuqkhg16spfc0p5@4ax.com...
> I have a new female friend who insists upon carefully vacuuming the inside
of
> her computer, covering it up carefully, etc. For fear of dust in the
works.
>
> So... I have a very very important question which, as far as I can tell,
and
> considering the large size and importance of the dust-cover industry, has
> never been asked in the usenet news before*:
>
>       Does dust inside a computer make any earthly difference?**
>
>       Has there ever been a computer which died of dust?
>
> thanks,
>
> Garry
> -------
>
> *I found -many- discussions about the best ways to polish up those old
> insides... some people wash by hand with alcohol, some people even run
cards
> through the dishwasher (mild cycle!) and then put them out in the sun. I
> think I better not let my friend see those conversations...
>
> **We're in the San Francisco area - a cool climate.