🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <NEWTNews.813966557.30855.pts@pts.technet.sg>, pts@technet.sg wrote:

> Hello There,
> 
>         We're looking for a system which can scan in the floor plans 
> (preferably 2-D floor plans) using a scanner and build it into a 3-D output 
> within half an hour.The 3-D output must also be able to cater for real-time 
> walk through.
> 
> Any Advice or Suggestions, please.
> 
> Thanks and Regards.  
> 

This will be difficult to find, especially give your expectation of a
walkthrough.  Yoour basically asking a program to automatically build a 3D
model for you?!  Why do you think they have 3D modelers!? 

It will also be at least 10 times more expensive than you're thinking, and
require alot of custom programming work and years of development.

Think about what you're asking for here!1


> Raymond Ching
> Pts@technet.sg

Bill Leonard
bill_l@magicnet.net
______________________________________________________________________________
                               cyber.lab g.f.x.
  3D Animation * Modeling * Special Effects * Station ID Packages * Pre-Viz

                                 407.425.5722
                  http://www.magicnet.net/~bill_l/top.html
______________________________________________________________________________

Bill Leonard (bill_l@magicnet.net) wrote:
: In article <NEWTNews.813966557.30855.pts@pts.technet.sg>, pts@technet.sg wrote:

: > Hello There,
: > 
: >         We're looking for a system which can scan in the floor plans 
: > (preferably 2-D floor plans) using a scanner and build it into a 3-D output 
: > within half an hour.The 3-D output must also be able to cater for real-time 
: > walk through.
: > 
: > Any Advice or Suggestions, please.
: > 
: > Thanks and Regards.  
: > 

: This will be difficult to find, especially give your expectation of a
: walkthrough.  Yoour basically asking a program to automatically build a 3D
: model for you?!  Why do you think they have 3D modelers!? 

: It will also be at least 10 times more expensive than you're thinking, and
: require alot of custom programming work and years of development.

: Think about what you're asking for here!1



Naaaaw, 6 months for a working prototype.  Bet you could hack something to 
work on top of the DOOM engine even faster, tho I haven't worked with it...


: > Raymond Ching
: > Pts@technet.sg

: Bill Leonard
: bill_l@magicnet.net
: ______________________________________________________________________________
:                                cyber.lab g.f.x.
:   3D Animation * Modeling * Special Effects * Station ID Packages * Pre-Viz

:                                  407.425.5722
:                   http://www.magicnet.net/~bill_l/top.html
: ______________________________________________________________________________



								rob.



Internet: rmiller@bsm.bioc.ucl.ac.uk 
http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~rmiller

-----------------------------------------------------

Deleos (deleos@gate.net) wrote:
: rmiller@bsm.bioc.ucl.ac.uk (Rob Miller) wrote:

: >Bill Leonard (bill_l@magicnet.net) wrote:
: >: In article <NEWTNews.813966557.30855.pts@pts.technet.sg>, pts@technet.sg wrote:

: >: > Hello There,
: >: > 
: >: >         We're looking for a system which can scan in the floor plans 
: >: > (preferably 2-D floor plans) using a scanner and build it into a 3-D output 
: >: > within half an hour.The 3-D output must also be able to cater for real-time 
: >: > walk through.

: >: It will also be at least 10 times more expensive than you're thinking, and
: >: require alot of custom programming work and years of development.

: >Naaaaw, 6 months for a working prototype.  Bet you could hack something to 
: >work on top of the DOOM engine even faster, tho I haven't worked with it...

: I would think that if _anyone_ could do it with the DooM engine id
: themselves could and they create their levels by hand.   Bill is
: _exactly_ right what is being proposed here is absurd for todays state
: of technology.  Obviously someone has seen to many science fiction
: movies. 

(1) Sorry to waste the bionet.software bandwidth, but it's the only group I 
monitor that has this thread; not too far off topic as protein folding is 
a 2-space to 3-space mapping problem as well.

(2) I was under the impression that the DOOM levels were based initially on, 
and defined as, 2D maps; as I said, I've not worked with it.

(3) I didn't say the time constraints would be met on a PC, I try to ignore 
the existence of PCs unless they're running unix.

(4) algorithm:

  (a) scan in the top view floor plans, do edge detection, find the corners.
      These are your initial x-y coords.  Specify a default height and you 
      can walk through right away, although everything in your model will 
      extend floor-to-ceiling.  Obviously the project is not feasible if 
      only top-view floor plans are given - but not because it `is absurd
      for today's state of technology,' rather because all the information is 
      not present.

  (b) scan in side view(s) to determine Z (height dimension in this case) coords 
      for everything in the rooms.  This part is trickier, but should be do-able 
      using constraint propagation and possibly restricting the 2D drawing format - 
      the original problem statement only says `preferably 2-D floor plans', so 
      defining some rules for linking various structures in the multiple drawings 
      is not out of the question.  

  There are many ways to specify 3D info in 2D, and at least some of them could 
be applied to this project -- software exists already to take a published stereo
pair drawing of a protein and convert that data into 3D coords, though not all 
that well I'm told.

(5) I haven't seen a decent science fiction film in years.


Internet: rmiller@bsm.bioc.ucl.ac.uk 
http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~rmiller

-----------------------------------------------------

In article <NEWTNews.813966557.30855.pts@pts.technet.sg>, pts@technet.sg wrote:

> Hello There,
> 
>         We're looking for a system which can scan in the floor plans 
> (preferably 2-D floor plans) using a scanner and build it into a 3-D output 
> within half an hour.The 3-D output must also be able to cater for real-time 
> walk through.
> 
> Any Advice or Suggestions, please.
> 
> Thanks and Regards.  
> 
> 
> Raymond Ching
> Pts@technet.sg
Sounds like virtuous walk through pro on a mac to me.  It may not be quite
as automatic as you like, but it is close.  There are some modellers that
adapt quiet well to quick architechural situations out there as well. 
Most notable are form*Z and Design Workshop.  With a 9500 and lots of ram
with these programs your goals might be workable.

-- 
clay

In article <NEWTNews.813966557.30855.pts@pts.technet.sg>,
   pts@technet.sg wrote:
>
>Hello There,
>
>	We're looking for a system which can scan in the floor plans 
>(preferably 2-D floor plans) using a scanner and build it into a 3-D output 
>within half an hour.The 3-D output must also be able to cater for real-time 
>walk through.
>

>
I know this sounds stupid, but what about DOOM! You can use a level editor to 
model the plans and it does it in real time, you can also use the textures... 
I used Doom2 To make a model of my house and my dads new Pharmacy.

It really is something that is worth considering..


Mike

>I know this sounds stupid, but what about DOOM! You can use a level editor to 
>model the plans and it does it in real time, you can also use the textures... 
>I used Doom2 To make a model of my house and my dads new Pharmacy.
>

Doom uses a Ray Casting engine to maximize speed for the gaming platform.
Something you are not realizing is the fact that in any type of REAL
architectual work, in displaying the plans to a client, in the PROPER
dimensions, requires something with a lot more punch. (Atleast it would
if you wish to do it correctly.) Something like Doom is used in reference
to FAST MATH, if you were to take a look at games such as DOOM, Rise of
the Triad, Heretic etc, you will find that the objects in the "2 and a 1/2"
view is based on algorithms for sliver rendering.(Pixel rendering.. means
it renders slivers of the picture as you need them, vertically). You
may notice I do not call it true 3d, as it is just a hack to make the
elements of 3d look cool on a 2d plane. (Ask me about this via VR one day
<g> ). Their concepts and theories are EXCELLENT.. but its a game. As an
example.. MOST ray casting engines like doom use an array( some techno
babble meaning storage of numbers in a certain manner) that kinda resembles
a map. Via that, they can render the slivers of the screen as needed. Here 
is the problem..if you are to render, lets say a CURVED island in a kitchen, 
that has a nook off to the right, in a semicircluar patio... you couldn't really
explore the floor plan..as everthing has to be SQUARED.(Imagine taking some
graph paper, and filling in each square where ya want a wall or table.
LOOK.. no CURVES.) This may not be very appealing to the client in which you
are trying to develop this for.

I can't give you an example of a TRUE walk true, but I have seen something
with proper dimensions done in Autocad, and presented with some 3ds to make
a very appealing presentation. But alas... to find the people to do this is
a task beyond the scope of my message. Good luck.

PC'ing you,
Dana M. Epp
eppdm@uniserve.com

     "How can one work with the technology of today, 
      using yesterdays software and methods, and still
      expect to be on the leading edge tomorrow. Why
      settle for less..... I won't!!!"    

>Excuse the ignorance, but what is DOOM? and on what platforms is is available?

  Doom is probably the world's most successfull game (in terms of popularity) 
in history.  It has made a bigger impact than pac-man and defender, and has 
spawned, either by code or by example, literally hundreds of simular games, 
which have only recently begun to surpass this 2-3 year old game.  That's one 
hell of a game.

  Doom is a game with a 1st person perspective (seen through your own eyes) 
where you run around (usually in the middle of Hell itself) killing all kinds 
of dead and undead baddies and a number of demons.  Go to ftp.idsoftware.com 
if you want to leech some shareware of it...  the game rocks to high heaven 
(or hell)...

  (yes, I am obviously a doom fanatic...)



>> I know this sounds stupid, but what about DOOM! You can use a level editor to 
>> model the plans and it does it in real time, you can also use the textures... 
>> I used Doom2 To make a model of my house and my dads new Pharmacy.
>> 

(this part is to the previous guy)

  Doom is a great game, but if you can find the editor for Dark Forces 
(another great game, by lucas arts) you are not limited to one floor.  Though 
doom editors are more common, so if you are only workign with a single story 
or don't mind having the make the top floor seperate (like teleport to it 
while going up or downstairs), doom is the better one to model with.

Everett (lithium@netropolis.net) wrote:
: >Excuse the ignorance, but what is DOOM? and on what platforms is is available?

:   Doom is probably the world's most successfull game (in terms of popularity) 
: in history.  It has made a bigger impact than pac-man and defender, and has 
: spawned, either by code or by example, literally hundreds of simular games, 
: which have only recently begun to surpass this 2-3 year old game.  That's one 
: hell of a game.

:   Doom is a game with a 1st person perspective (seen through your own eyes) 
: where you run around (usually in the middle of Hell itself) killing all kinds 
: of dead and undead baddies and a number of demons.  Go to ftp.idsoftware.com 
: if you want to leech some shareware of it...  the game rocks to high heaven 
: (or hell)...

:   (yes, I am obviously a doom fanatic...)



: >> I know this sounds stupid, but what about DOOM! You can use a level editor to 
: >> model the plans and it does it in real time, you can also use the textures... 
: >> I used Doom2 To make a model of my house and my dads new Pharmacy.
: >> 

: (this part is to the previous guy)

:   Doom is a great game, but if you can find the editor for Dark Forces 
: (another great game, by lucas arts) you are not limited to one floor.  Though 
: doom editors are more common, so if you are only workign with a single story 
: or don't mind having the make the top floor seperate (like teleport to it 
: while going up or downstairs), doom is the better one to model with.



:What is so great about playing a game that glorifies destuction, terror, 
hell,etc.  I have enough trouble dealing with the world we already have!

> :What is so great about playing a game that glorifies destuction, terror,
> hell,etc.  I have enough trouble dealing with the world we already have!


Is this guy real?


-- 
Mattias

In article <47s8rk$7t3@shellx.best.com> human <human@species.org> writes:
>From: human <human@species.org>
>Subject: Re: 3-D system
>Date: 9 Nov 1995 06:59:00 GMT

>jmay@pluggers.esu8.k12.ne.us (Justin C. May) wrote:
>*snip*
>>:What is so great about playing a game that glorifies destuction, terror, 
>>hell,etc.  I have enough trouble dealing with the world we already have!

>We like it. We are human (well, I am). It is truly glorious to defeat the enemies, as anyone 
>who has ever competed in a sport will tell you. It is even more glorious to actually kill 
>someone and get away with it.

>The point of DOOM et al, is not to teach people how to kill (its unrealistic) nor that 
>killing is fun (everyone knows that), but to give people an *alternative* to actually doing 
>it. I play at work and I love 'killing' my colleagues, but none of us harbour *any* ill 
>feelings toward each other, even if someone is 'being cheap' :) Do I want to kill them? GET 
>A LIFE!

>Any game where the player learns that strategy is more important than instinct is good for 
>you. DOOM, Dark Forces, TohShinDen, Mortal Kombat (really!) all require the players to rise 
>above their animal-selves to win. Any kid can tell you this. This is a good thing. 'Adults' 
>need to listen a bit more.

Lots of games contain strategy but for men in particular the killing seems to 
be supremely important.  My male friends/relatives will play anything that 
involves killing (strategy or no strategy) and will select a game that 
involves killing and no strategy and above a game that contains strategy and 
no killing.  

They seem to have a limitless fascination for the fighting parts.  I enjoy 
the fighting the first couple of times in a game and then I get bored and 
the fighting is just a chore to get through before you get to the 
interesting stuff (parts of the game that change).