🚀 go-pugleaf

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote:

>> Hey Arny, I wouldn't complain about 96.3 dB being rounded to 97 dB
>instead  of 96.
>
>That's known in the trade as a rounding mistake.

Huh?  I simply reported the result in SpectraLab without altering
them, and provided a screengrab to confirm it.  Call it bad practice
if you like.. but I expect you and anybody who is involved in
interpreting these plots to have a semblance of knowledge on how to do
so (and I'll freely admit I'm no expert in this).  Don't blame me if
the software (and let's remember - it's the same software you use for
all your tests) produces errors.

SpectraLab showed a S/N ratio of over 97 dB with a 1Khz tone (not
96.3).  You can see from the screengrab that it was taken in real
time, set to 16 bit with a 48Khz sample rate, used an appropriately
high resolution FFT window and Blackman analysis.

You explain the error.

There's more!  SpectraLab indicates a S/N ratio of 100 dB with a 20Hz
tone.  See here :

http://home.clara.net/media/sblive/20HZ-DO.gif

You explain the error.

Both of these signals are below 18Khz, which as I've already shown:

http://home.clara.net/media/sblive/SB-GINA-DD-SWEEP-SG.gif

..are frequencies that do not produce any gross artifacts, also:

http://home.clara.net/media/sblive/FR-DO.gif

..so neither are they affected by the roll-off I measured with this
card.

So wouldn't it be safe to assume, that at these frequencies the
transfer is *more or less* bit-perfect?  Now are you going to address
the wild difference between our results for the benefit of your
website visitors, Mr Krueger?

>Let's put this in
>perspective. Mr. Dormer is way over the top. He's taken the
>unreasonable approach that you're accusing me of. He's said:
>
>Paul Dormer wrote:
>
>"So why don't you do something pro-active with your life and admit in
>the relevant locations on your website that your results with the
>Live! are flawed and/or antiquated, rather than allowing users of
>your website to be perpetually misinformed?  Why don't you finally
>correct the widespread rumour that you started, that the digital
>output of the
>Live! is worse than the analog output.. which it MOST CERTAINLY IS
>NOT!"

What is so unreasonable about that?  I'm confused here.. I have
reported significantly improved digital performance to your tests.
Bearing in mind that you have started a MASSIVELY widespread rumour
that "the Live" has a worse digital output performance than analog,
and that your website is used as a source of reference by many, does
it not behove you to retest your card with the latest drivers and/or
find out what is causing the difference?  Even a disclaimer noting
that there is this noted variation?  No.. you haven't done any of
this, have you.  You willfully allow people to be misinformed.  Can
you not understand how annoying this is to people who know the truth?

>I also don't claim > 96 dB SNR for any 16 bit cards.

I did not "claim" this, I simply reported the results.

>IME different samples of the same card tend to be within a dB or so.
>This was not true in the past, but it has been true since the advent
>of sigma-delta converters, which are essentially all digital.
>
>But Dormer is not comparing apples and apples. He's obviously using a
>different card than I am, and no doubt different drivers. He's been
>yelling and screaming and asking for my head on a plate for a week,
>when nothing he does really lines up with what I did on 2/2/2000 -
>over a year ago.

So what are you going to do about it?  My card is an "4830".. your
tests suggest of a "4830" say the digital output is worse than the
analog.  It is not.  If I was a consumer relying on your results to
make a purchase decision.. 

Do I have to spell it out for you?

>> For the record I think your tests are a damn sight better than
>nothing,

I agree with this.. my basic problem with the site is that Kruger
doesn't keep it up to date and therefore these sorts of issues arise.
The same thing happened with my Echo Gina.  It *still* says "reference
card" on the test page which is incorrect, and the results are poorer
than I obtain with the card.  The same thing with my AWE64 Gold.  And
this is supposed to be a reference site?

>You are also letting Dormer ride free when he makes the precise
>errors that you are falsely accusing me of.

Show where *I* have made any error.


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