🚀 go-pugleaf

"Trevor" <trevor@home> wrote in message
news:3b0b6499$0$25475$7f31c96c@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...

> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote in message
> news:96CO6.3473$EW5.538921099@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...

> > As far as your claim to have measured 97 dB SNR in a 16 bit
> > environment, that appears to be better than that which is
> > theoretically possible. Digital I/O can help, but not quite that
> > much!

> Hey Arny, I wouldn't complain about 96.3 dB being rounded to 97 dB
instead  of 96.

That's known in the trade as a rounding mistake. Let's put this in
perspective. Mr. Dormer is way over the top. He's taken the
unreasonable approach that you're accusing me of. He's said:

Paul Dormer wrote:

"So why don't you do something pro-active with your life and admit in
the relevant locations on your website that your results with the
Live! are flawed and/or antiquated, rather than allowing users of
your website to be perpetually misinformed?  Why don't you finally
correct the widespread rumour that you started, that the digital
output of the
Live! is worse than the analog output.. which it MOST CERTAINLY IS
NOT!"

>It's SpectraLabs output after all, and none of YOUR measurements
seem  to be calibrated or traceable to any National standard from
what I can see?

I also don't claim > 96 dB SNR for any 16 bit cards.

> > The cards I tested did what I say they did, pure and simple.
Others
> > have confirmed my results. I've confirmed my own results with
other
> > samples of the same model card.

> This I have no argument with, I am sure such a cheap card does not
have mega
> strict quality control. Would you expect it to?

IME different samples of the same card tend to be within a dB or so.
This was not true in the past, but it has been true since the advent
of sigma-delta converters, which are essentially all digital.

But Dormer is not comparing apples and apples. He's obviously using a
different card than I am, and no doubt different drivers. He's been
yelling and screaming and asking for my head on a plate for a week,
when nothing he does really lines up with what I did on 2/2/2000 -
over a year ago.

> > Mr. Dormer, if you've got a new hotshot card that's got analog
I/O
> > that's 4 dB better, that's not totally unbelievable. Good for
you! I
> > guess its the luck of the draw. But measuring 97 dB in a 16 bit
> > environment takes some doing... especially if your test signal is
> > properly dithered. Theoretical max is 96 dB unweighted, isn't it?

> For the record I think your tests are a damn sight better than
nothing,
> which is pretty much what else is available. And I do read them and
> appreciate having some data on cards that I have no access to. Do
you really
> need to make such ridiculous statements though?

IMO it's not ridiculous.

>1 dB measurement error is a hanging offence?

It's not a hanging offense, its one of those things that slips by
people who don't know what they are doing. It's like turning in a lab
report claiming to have measured 1 degree below absolute zero.

>1 dB roll off in a card at 18 kHz makes it useless?

Not at all. See my next answer.

83 dB  S/N ratio is inadequate for recording vinyl or cassette?

Please read http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm :

"If the frequency response is within +/- 0.2 dB from 80  to 13 KHz
and does not peak or dip excessively (say more than +/- 3 dB)  32
Hz-17 KHz,  then the card is probably going not going to color the
sound in such a way that it will bother you."

"If the SNR is above about 75-80 dB, then noise is not going to be
too much of an issue as long as you keep your recording levels up. In
practice much of the audible benefit of SNR's > 80 dB is that you
don't have to be so careful about setting levels because if you are a
little on the low side, the noise from the card still won't intrude."

> Give it a rest. You're destroying your own credibility.

Trevor you are putting words in my mouth, and in my book that IS a
hanging offense.

You are also letting Dormer ride free when he makes the precise
errors that you are falsely accusing me of. Virtually everything
you've said about me applies to Dormer's wild claims. So why aren't
you saying it to him?