🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <gate.84kRXB1w165w@sytex.com> mbenson@sytex.com (Michael Benson) writes:
>JL>        - Wave Table synthesis
>  >        - 1 MB on board ROM with 128 sampled instruments
>
>In the next month or two you will see MANY MANY new brands of sound
>cards because of propagation of sound chips.

But only the GUS has 1 Meg ram and not ROM. You can put around 40-50 GUS
patches in 1 Meg, so 128 sampled instruments in 1 Meg ROM is a really
bad idea. Not counting that 128 instruments is only the voice part of
GM, the other beeing percussions. If some of you dont understand what
i'm implying, here's the deal:

If you put more patches in the same area, you have lower quality samples.
To hold all the standard GUS patches you need 4 Meg.

Another advantage of RAM is that it allows MOD players of 1 meg mod files
without using a dos extender, and using only 64K main ram.

A third advantage is the fact that you need RAM to use FOCAL POINT 3D audio
technology to preprocess your samples. (which is exclusive to the GUS on the
IBM platform for 1 year, with option for 4 more years)

A fourth advantage is that you can use any sound and sample it and put it on
the card (be it a Juno-106, a TR909, a pan flute, a chainsaw etc...)

I have presently over 100 Meg of high quality 16 bit instruments (some
generated by a soft synthesiser - Csound is an example of softsynth - and
other sampled from various sources). Now, if i can get a digital editor for
windows like Samplevision (i have Wave, but it doesn't playback, and is a
pain to use because of this), i'll release a lot of patches. Doing it by
hand for 16 bit samples has been tedious (i already did some patches that
are on the archive). On the other hand i have what it takes for 8 bit
patches and did 30 this weekend, ranging from the "techno music" voice
like U96 (das boot), to grunge analog synths and breakbeats. It is also
very easy to transfer samples from MOD files to GUS patches.

Ciao,
--
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...

In article <1993Jan26.051739.25502@cc.umontreal.ca> dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion) writes:
>In article <gate.84kRXB1w165w@sytex.com> mbenson@sytex.com (Michael Benson) writes:
>>JL>        - Wave Table synthesis
>>  >        - 1 MB on board ROM with 128 sampled instruments
>>
>>In the next month or two you will see MANY MANY new brands of sound
>>cards because of propagation of sound chips.
>
>But only the GUS has 1 Meg ram and not ROM. You can put around 40-50 GUS
>patches in 1 Meg, so 128 sampled instruments in 1 Meg ROM is a really
>bad idea. Not counting that 128 instruments is only the voice part of
>GM, the other beeing percussions. If some of you dont understand what
>i'm implying, here's the deal:
>
>If you put more patches in the same area, you have lower quality samples.
>To hold all the standard GUS patches you need 4 Meg.
>

This assumes that the samples in ROM are not compressed.  But there is no
basis for that assumption.  When I have seen descriptions of synths that use
ROM for waves, they often mention that the waves are compressed.  Since the
hardware is dedicated and the format is proprietary, there is absolutely no
reason NOT to use compressed samples.  Since sound is highly redundant, the
compression must be considerable.

>Another advantage of RAM is that it allows MOD players of 1 meg mod files
>without using a dos extender, and using only 64K main ram.
>
>A third advantage is the fact that you need RAM to use FOCAL POINT 3D audio
>technology to preprocess your samples. (which is exclusive to the GUS on the
>IBM platform for 1 year, with option for 4 more years)
>
There is other 3D audio technology around.  I believe Roland has demoed it.
I would be surprised if it requires samples to be in RAM, since anything in
RAM can be in ROM.

>A fourth advantage is that you can use any sound and sample it and put it on
>the card (be it a Juno-106, a TR909, a pan flute, a chainsaw etc...)
>

This is undeniably the major advantage of using RAM.  Seems to me the best
card would use both ROM and RAM, like high end synths do.  If there is a
point to putting stuff in RAM, it is to avoid loading from a disk and to make
sure there is a reliable standard set of samples available -- the Gen Midi
set for example.  I don't see any point in having the Gen Midi set in RAM.
It just makes the process slow and unreliable.  Save RAM for custom sounds
and upgraded sounds.  4 meg ROM and 4 meg RAM seems like a reasonable size
for a quality card -- and onboard reverb of course!


Cheers,

Dave

In article <1k4vhkINN7oj@ua.d.umn.edu> dcole@ua.d.umn.edu (david cole) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.051739.25502@cc.umontreal.ca> dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion) writes:
>>But only the GUS has 1 Meg ram and not ROM. You can put around 40-50 GUS
>>patches in 1 Meg, so 128 sampled instruments in 1 Meg ROM is a really
>>bad idea.
>>If you put more patches in the same area, you have lower quality samples.
>>To hold all the standard GUS patches you need 4 Meg.
>
>This assumes that the samples in ROM are not compressed.  But there is no

Just to get the equivalent of what the GUS has you would need 4:1 NON lossy
compression. I'm very surprised you said that, because i think you read
comp.dsp, so you should know that it is impossible. A sample of instrument
(like those for the Gravis) is really hard to compress by more than 15% with
a non-lossy algorythm. With lossy algorythms you get better, but at 4:1 you
will get very noticeable effects (you really want those patches as clean as
possible). Ask anybody on comp.dsp, dat-heads, the MPEG group, etc...

>basis for that assumption.  When I have seen descriptions of synths that use
>ROM for waves, they often mention that the waves are compressed.  Since the
>hardware is dedicated and the format is proprietary, there is absolutely no
>reason NOT to use compressed samples.  Since sound is highly redundant, the
>compression must be considerable.

Sound is not redundant at all. To get a good start, read the comp.dsp FAQ.
Not only that, but the real GM will probably take 5 meg, since several patches
lack presently. (Just all the drums take 1 Meg)

I said:
>>Another advantage of RAM is that it allows MOD players of 1 meg mod files
>>without using a dos extender, and using only 64K main ram.

And not only that, but the sound quality is much better this way.

>>A third advantage is the fact that you need RAM to use FOCAL POINT 3D audio
>>technology to preprocess your samples. (which is exclusive to the GUS on the
>>IBM platform for 1 year, with option for 4 more years)
>>
>There is other 3D audio technology around.  I believe Roland has demoed it.
>I would be surprised if it requires samples to be in RAM, since anything in
>RAM can be in ROM.

Read my 3d.txt description of all the 3d methods on archive.epas.utoronto.ca.
The RSS has been around since 91 (Roland Spacial Sound) but it requires a
costly DSP to do it. Not only that but you then need to implement controls by
registers etc... Presently it is only available for a huge amount of money,
and must be controlled thru midi. It will take several years before it is
implemented in a soundcard (minimum 2 years, and even then it will be expensive)
so Focal Point is the only choice for now, exclusive to Gravis.

>>A fourth advantage is that you can use any sound and sample it and put it on
>>the card (be it a Juno-106, a TR909, a pan flute, a chainsaw etc...)
>
>This is undeniably the major advantage of using RAM.  Seems to me the best
>card would use both ROM and RAM, like high end synths do.  If there is a
>point to putting stuff in RAM, it is to avoid loading from a disk and to make
>sure there is a reliable standard set of samples available -- the Gen Midi
>set for example.  I don't see any point in having the Gen Midi set in RAM.
>It just makes the process slow and unreliable.  Save RAM for custom sounds
>and upgraded sounds.  4 meg ROM and 4 meg RAM seems like a reasonable size
>for a quality card -- and onboard reverb of course!

The GF1 doesn't support that in its present form. I think Gravis was caught
by surprise that everybody wanted a 1 meg card, and that if they had sold
a card with the possibility for 4 meg, people would probably have upgraded
to 4.

>Cheers,
>
>Dave

Ciao,
--
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...