🚀 go-pugleaf

From article <37366@apple.Apple.COM>, by rewing@Apple.COM (Richard Ewing):
> In article <4574@ur-cc.UUCP> ctne_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Chris Newbold) writes:
>>In article <14960@boulder.Colorado.EDU> kuo@boulder.Colorado.EDU (KUO ANDY Y) writes:
>>>  It is a fact that NuBus, SCSI, AppleTalk, 68xxx chip is superior than 
>>>EISA/MCA, ESDI, nothing standard or build in, 80xxx(not include 80486).
>>
>>...  I think that you will find, oh, just a few people disagree with this
>>statement.  SCSI is as slow as sh*t.  The 68xxx is nice, but I'll take a
>>'386 or '486 any day of the week.  My Compaq 386 eats Mac SE/30's for lunch.
>>Can you say "upgradable?"  That's something that you can do with current
>>80xxx buses.  Try doing that to a Mac without having to pay for an entire
>>new system board.  Can you add the latest video technology to a Mac by dropping
>>a a board?  No, you can even open the damn case without a proprietary tool!!!
>>Can you say "customization?"  Something else you can't do with a Mac.  That's
>>why nothing comes standard on 80xxx bus machines.

This kills me about PC lovers.  "Nothing comes standard on 80xxx bus machines."

First off, we're talking ISA; there's no such thing as a 80xxx bus.  People
have used 80xxx chips in parallel processors; you don't think that they used
ISA for that, do you? (Why don't they call it PC-bus?)

It IS nice that as an DOS machine owner I may have a choice as to what video
technology, disk drive technology, printer technology, et nausea to use.

But it is HORRIBLE that I have to configure every piece of software I buy
in order to tell it "Yes, I'm using this kind of printer, that kind of...."

As a DOS user (e.g. accountant who wants to use a spreadsheet, secretary who
wants to use WordPerfect), I don't want to know about that stuff.  Give me
something I can plug in and start working.

You're telling me that people who get frustrated with the number of cables
on their audio/video systems can deal with the problems of configuring a
PC with all the additional hardware and software needed TODAY in order to
get work done?

It always seems to me like buying an automobile and then needing to decide
what kind of steering device, acceleration device, etc I want on it (sort
of like the turn of the century).  Oh, and BTW, you can upgrade it by replacing
the engine!

I agree with the Apple ad that said "comparing the Mac to the other machines
isn't fair; people LIKE using the Mac."  Emphasis on the word "USING."

>>
>>I'll die before I use a Mac or any of it's related equipment.  It's all junk.
>>
> <Arnold Swartzeneggar Flame Thrower ON!>
> 
> SCSI may not be the fastest thing in world, but  I sure like it when
> its time to add additional hard drives...or scanners...or digitizers...
> or tape drives...or CD ROMS....or...get the picture?

Workstations are starting to use SCSI.  My Sun 3/50 uses it to talk to 
the disk drives.  Lots of SCSI devices out there.
> 
> Can you say "upgradable"?  Apple probably is the most committed
> company in the industry when it comes to upgrades. 

Apple does charge quite a bit for the privilege, don't you think?
Although I must admit that for a top of the line Compaq file server we're
talking $25,000 while I can't imagine any Apple machine costing that much.

What are typical costs for upgrading a 80286 machine to a 80386?

> Does 
> Compaq really do upgrades on their machines?  Outside of
> the 486 power platform, does IBM really do upgrades.  No.  Most "upgrades"
> are left to third parties, usually just fast microprocessor boards,
> or crude memory boards that offer a bizarre standard known as LIM 4.0.
> Bank switching...ugh!!!

That's the greatest weakness of the original PC design.  What genius created
the 640KB memory limitation.  After all, the chip could address more than
that!

> 
> Latest video technology?  You call VGA and 8514/A the latest technology????
> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!  Now that's really good!  C'mon now.  I can
> get 24-bit  truecolor cards that actually have an Apple defined
> video standard behind them for under $1000!  Get real on this subject.

Also, ever notice that PC software always list 50 things on the box:

"This software runs with VGA, EGA, CGA, and Hercules video card and contains
both 5 1/4 in and 3 1/2 inch floppies." (and usually a lot more; look like
ingredient lists!).

Mac software says:

"Runs on Macintosh."

> "Nothing comes standard on a 80xxx box".  You get what you pay for.
> 

I'm afraid I have to agree with that.  To "build" a DOS machine equivalent
to a Macintosh costs about the same (and usually more).  I say build because
that's certainly what it seems like.

I once had a discussion with a customer support guy who loved IBM-PC's because
"You can do anything with 'em."  After a few hours of discussion, it seemed
that you could, but it takes a DOS expert to set the PC up to be useable by
a mere mortal.  For a Mac, you turn it on, drag some icons to the system
folder and you're done.  Let 'er rip!


Arturo Perez
ComputerVision, a division of Prime
aperez@cvbnet.prime.com
Too much information, like a bullet through my brain -- The Police