🚀 go-pugleaf

in article mwron-4158FF.11431902092003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 9/2/03 8:43 AM:

> In article <BB79584E.B5AD%kkb@breathsense.com>,
> Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com> wrote:
> 
>> in article mwron-8CACDA.14184825082003@enews.newsguy.com, MW Ron at
>> mwron@metrowerks.com wrote on 8/25/03 11:18 AM:
>> 
>>> 
>>> New Breakpoints Window
>>> * Breakpoints, watchpoints and eventpoints are now combined into one
>>> easy to use window.
>>> * The group page lets you work with breakpoints, eventpoints,
>>> watchpoints, and internal breakpoints.
>>> * You can now open breakpoints in the Object Inspector which will allow
>>> you to view and change the breakpoints' properties.
>>> * The Instances page lets you set breakpoints, eventpoints, and
>>> watchpoints on a per thread or per-process basis.
>>> * The Templates page lets you define breakpoint templates and specify a
>>> default breakpoint template.
>>> * Once you have a breakpoint set the way you like it you can then use it
>>> as a template for future breakpoints.
>>> Other New Windows
>>> * New profile information viewer
>>> * Part of the IDE now.
>> 
>> What does this item mean?  I heard from your salesperson who tried to sell
>> me CW9 that you are still using gdb.

I had quite a few problems parsing the bullet items in various lists.  To me
each bullet item is supposed to be a context-free child of the enclosing
topic.  So I thought it meant that the debugger is part of the IDE now.
Never mind!  ;)

>>> * New trace viewer
>>> * The Profiler can now provide program trace information to the debugger.
> 
> Ben explained this very well
> 
>> I was just about to buy one of the new G5s.  But then I put 2 and 2
>> together.  On the new G5s I lose OS 9 as a functioning debugging platform
>> (in lieu of any useful debugging on OS X).  So this means I either give up
>> buying a new computer or give up using CodeWarrior, and move to XCode.
>> 
>> So what use is any of this if there are no bug fixes, and the OS X is still
>> useless as a debugging platform?
> 
> We will include a version of CW 8 IDE that can be used as a standalone
> debugger for Classic Debugging or debugging on OS 9.
> 
>> Either you and your sales person have made major omissions of important
>> information, or development management has omitted anything useful from this
>> new version.
> 
> It is hard to explain 1300 Megabyes of software in a few paragraphs :)

No, but if you had fixed the debugger, the number one item at the top should
be "the debugger now works".  Lacking that, I have to assume it still
doesn't.  See below before responding to this.
> 
> 
>> Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm freaking out.  I just tried to debug something
>> under OS X in CW 8.3, and had the usual luck (none whatsoever).
> 
> You probably didn't have Apple's Developers Tools installed.  You need
> the Aug or December version in order to debug with CW 8.  If you are
> trying to debug Classic  from OS X then you just need to launch the IDE
> as Classic

No everything is installed fine, the debugger *runs* and a good fraction of
its features work sometimes.

But I see that I was unclear.  I thought it was just well understood by
everyone that the CW8 OS X debugger is relatively useless.  Viewing global
variables is not the only problem.  Only half of the local variables show,
and of course this will usually turn out to exclude the ones you need to
see, and IIRC (I use it so rarely so I forget whether this was fixed) you
can not set breakpoints in certain modules.

Everything I described has been acknowledged and discussed on this list and
elsewhere.  I was not aware that some people *could* use the debugger, e.g.
Scott Ribe apparently is able to view his local variables and can set
breakpoints where he needs to set them.

So I am waiting for a debugger that works.  The features are not
particularly interesting.  I don't know of any advantages that buying CW9
would offer me if I have to use CW8 in order.  It strikes me as much
misplaced effort to deliver large quantities of fancy sublte features when
the platform still does not work.  But if somehow I am in the minority, then
I can understand it, but I was not aware of that from others who I have
talked to.

> 
>> Unless I
>> hear something really surprising, somehow omitted from this otherwise
>> useless information, or I am probably giving up using CodeWarrior, and
>> having to go through the pain of porting to an almost entirely unfamiliar
>> environment.
> 
> There is just so much documentation and release notes that it is hard to
> get and remember all the information.   This is why we monitor the
> newsgrouups.  Just let me try and help.

Thanks, but you could help much more by trying to stop development from
staying in such a feature-motivated mode when there are so many
show-stopping bugs.

I just want to know when the debuger will work.  I would like to upgrade
then.  I was hoping to hear that I had it all wrong and this had been fixed,
and then I would happily write my check.  Lacking that I would like to hear
that all other develpment will be stopped until the debugger is working.

> 
> Ron