🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <7614@sdcsvax.UCSD.Edu> rfellman@ucsd.edu (Ronald Fellman) writes:
>In article <1630@intercon.com> amanda@mermaid.intercon.com (Amanda Walker) writes:
>>

[description of some features omitted]

>> - Built-in facilities for handling non-roman writing systems and keyboards
>>
>I can't see how most people would care about this!

Ah  yes, good old American provincialism will never go away...  I think the
Japanese should just learn English.  Better language, anyway.  Funny how
'most people' so often translates to 'me and the people I work with.'

>> - Color
>>
>By the end of the summer the NeXT should have color that will blow all
>other workstations away: High speed graphics processor and
>32bits including 8 bits transparency (alpha)

What will it cost?  The NeXT needs a graphics processor just for the
4-bit data it has to deal with now, anyway.

When you start talking about the future you give up the argument.
Amanda's not talking about the future, she's talking about NOW.  In
addition, NeXT isn't the only company which can bring out new products
in the future.  You can buy 32-bit graphics accellerators for the Mac
today, and there will be more and faster ones coming.  Whether, when
this hardware ACTUALLY ships, it will "blow all other workstations
away", well we'll just have to wait and see.  (By the way, you aren't
implying that the Mac is a workstation, are you?)

>> - A printer that doesn't halt my machine when I print a page
>>
>If you are worried about this, then just buy a LaserWriter IINT. That's
>what I have to do with my Mac.

Or another postscript clone.  Sure would be nice to have a choice of 
printers for the NeXT, though, wouldn't it?

>> - Thousands of applications and hundreds of peripherals that I can buy off
>>   the shelf
>>
>Right now (or VERY soon where indicated) I can get the following
>high quality programs that satisfy all of my current computer
>applications needs:

[list omitted]

Please.  VERY soon, even VERY VERY soon, is not NOW.  The very phrase
is a joke in this industry.  You can't possibly be comparing the
NeXT's applications software base to the Mac's.  It's just not
credible.  There are a few good programs available for the NeXT.
There will be more, if all goes well.  That's about all one can say.

>> - A superior and more consistent user interface (IMHO :-))
>>
>You've got to be kidding. The NeXT's interface makes the Macs look
>primitive.

It's you who's got to be kidding.  It takes more to make an interface
than shadowed buttons and a dock on the side of your screen.  The Mac
at least has a standard menu location for 'undo' (and demands that all
serious software support undo), doesn't require you to hold down the
alternate key if you want to page the scrollbar, and gives
applications an opportunity to save documents when you shut down.
Modal alert windows actually look substantially different from regular
windows.  You can hide application windows without activating those
applications.  You can launch applications in a reasonable amount of
time.  You can even put documents on the desktop.

I can't defend the Mac Finder, but it's five years old.  The NeXT
Workspace is just the five-year old Finder with a browser view and a
dock added.  And it doesn't even automatically update its windows
when applications create new documents.

Come on.  The NeXT UI is 80% looks and 20% feel, if that.

>>And it's a lot more affordable.  I think I'll keep it, thanks.
>>
>Last time I looked, my university price for a NeXT was much cheaper than
>a comparable MacIIci. And that wasn't counting all of the free software,
>DSP chip, or R/W/optical disk.
>
>>Look, I don't mean to knock the NeXT, but is has a ways to go before it's
>>competition for the Macintosh, except perhaps for a few specific applications.
>>
>>Amanda Walker
>>InterCon Systems Corporation
>
>I do mean to knock the Mac, I think that they have taken a lot for
>granted.  One can also buy an Amiga for 1/2 the price of a MacSE and get
>much better hardware.  I hear that there is even a MAC emulator for it
>(AMAX?)

The NeXT is a better buy for the money, but the prices are pretty
competitive here at Stanford.  Do you need color and an applications
base?  Like a UI with some maturity to it?  Buy the Mac.  Don't mind
waiting for a few years while NeXT cleans up the rough spots?  Don't
need much software, or foreign language support, but want a DSP,
optical disk, and (marginally) better development environment?  Buy
a NeXT.  Need speed?  Look elsewhere...

I'm not thrilled with the Mac either, but let's not make up advantages
for the NeXT where they don't exist.  The advantages are in hardware
and systems software, not applications software base or UI.  This can
be remedied, but only if NeXT works at it.  Writing off three-quarters
of the world because they insist on using other writing systems than
ours, and mistaking windows that drag whole and a file browser for a
real UI, is not going to help NeXT turn the cube into a success.

>-ron fellman (rfellman@ucsd.edu)
>Assistant Prof., Department of Elec. and Comp. Eng.
>Univ. of Calif., San Diego

Doug "loyal opposition" Felt
Courseware Authoring Tools Project
Stanford University