🚀 go-pugleaf

Hope this discussion interests people.  The whole 

truesdel@ics.uci.edu (Scott Truesdell) writes:

>alex@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Alex Pournelle) responded to the following
>statement [which, to avoid an infinite recursion error, isn't repeated...]
>by saying that there was actually a high likelyhood that the
>3rd party drive would, in fact, NOT be a Quantum:

>Sorry for the quick statement. I'll qualify it here.
>1st, since this is for a IIcx (if I remember correctly), the original
>querier is limited to 3.5" drives UNLESS he gets a CDC from MicroNet
>who have fabricated a replacement molding for the drive bracket that
>replaces the standard Apple bracket and allows for mounting 5.25"
>mechanisms.

For internal, dis be true.  I tend toward external drives on Macs (PCs
too, occasionally).

I don't trust the cx power supply any more
than I trust any Apple power supply--NOT!  The Apple supplies are a
constant source of terror and error, have been since the Apple II.  Price
pressure (even Apple feels it) means they cut corners, and ask Sony to
do so on the supplies.  This is an invisible headache cause which many
people never notice.

Now, most PC power supplies aren't any better--ask anyone with an IBM or
Compaq original supply--unless you buy a PC-Cool [expensive but worth
it--editor].  This has DEFINITELY started to bite PC users, with the $65
Taiwan supply the cause (no overvoltage protection, lousy filtering,
worse regulation).  But its day, in high-end 386/486 computers, is on
the wane.

Moral: Power is more a problem than you think.

If your application is critical (and for the price of a high-end
Mac, it is), think hard about external hard-drives.  I'm not slamming
Apple's supplies,
except on general observations, but the ones I've had apart don't make me
very reassured.  The best indicator, alas, is time.

>2nd, I presummed (probably wrong) that the querier wants performance
>and reliablity.

Obviously, or they would be buying a Mac Plus.  I'm not slamming you or your
opinion.  You're right.

>Alex, you see more of these things than I do,

Which in no way diminishes your experience

>but,
>besides the "stiction" problems which appear well on the way to a cure,
>the little Quantums are the fastest and most reliable 3.5" drives, yes?

Hmmm.  If you have to have 3-1/2" form-factor, I'd go with ST-157N.
Speed is slightly lower, though (stepper drive).  Remember, Quanta are 
voice-coil drives (fast) but not yet caching (not as fast as they will be).

I am not encouraged by the Apple/Quantum "cure" pronouncement.  A ROM
change doesn't
make up for the fact that *Quantum isn't plating the media well enough*.
And then they don't lube them well enough, either.  No amount of
post-manufacturing shenanigans is going to cure stiction--they can't add
torque to the motor.  If they run it harder at start-up they risk
burning the coils--almost invariably fatal.  As with all Quanta, (&
Seagates, and many other drives) the drives run hot, too.  Their sealed
construction doesn't dissipate well, either.

I suspect history will show that Quantum got stuck with huge price
pressures and compromised on the media fabrication.


Priams don't stick; CDCs don't stick.  Maxtors don't seem to (not big
personal knowledge pool there).  Seagates, MiniScribes, Plus HardCards
and Quanta do.  The first two are easy for us to rescue, the last
two--not so easy.

Call me prejudiced against Quanta; I've seen entirely more than my share
come through the door.  And their tech. support hasn't been very
helpful, I'm afraid (love to change that!).  Parts are essentially
unavailable.

>3rd, I probably should have worded that statement "...3rd party drive
>you may CHOOSE or SELECT..." meaning, after he examined the selection
>of drives out there, he would arrive at the same conclusion I have, 
>and buy Quantum drives exclusively in the 3.5" range. When the CDC 
>Swifts start shipping, I PRESUME they will give the Quantums a good 
>run for the money.

Erm, didn't know CDC was STILL in the teething stage on those.  Even
Apple might use 'em.

I might suggest Conners but my experience with the Compaq Conners has
been--uninspiring.

>>Micro-Net drives are my favorite, by far.  They have the best tech.
>>support and tech. people.  And the CDC mechanisms don't break.

>I agree wholeheartedly. All my AppleShare servers are using CDC Wrens
>except for 4 SEs used to serve 4 15-Mac Plus Pascal programming
>networks. These use Quantums. Also, all Mac IIs with drives other than
>Apple-supplied (higher ed discount makes these hard to pass up) get CDC
>mechanisms. I find it very easy to cost justify these drives to
>University purchasers on the following grounds: Reliability means less
>money in maintenance, reliability means less downtime, made in U.S.A./
>good for economy, and, as an aside, they offer the best performance.

'Sides, the Mitsubishis and Fujis of the world haven't got into SCSIs in
a major way.

Have to see your lab sometime.  Sounds fun....

	Alex