Article View: comp.sys.next.misc
Article #1321Re: data point: non-ardi, (non-next) mac emulator
From: Clifford T. Matthews
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:53
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:53
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8203 bytes
Dear Folks, I have more information about Liken and will send it via e-mail to anyone who asks, or I could post it to the net if there's enough interest in a Sun product in this newsgroup. I have reproduced the three parts that I think the most number of people would be interested in. Single '>' denotes from a press release I was sent by a friend (I believe it was also posted in one of the Sun groups). > Liken is a product of > Xcelerated Systems, Inc. > 3944 Murphy Canyon Road, Suite C201 > San Diego, CA 92123 > Voice: (619)576-3080 > FAX: (619)576-2504 ... > > Liken provides an emulation of a Motorola 68000 processor, and allows > the use of the SPARC display, keyboard, mouse, hard disk, floppy disk, > and CDROM drives. Liken runs under the Open Windows SunOS windowing > system and is specifically designed to operate with customer-supplied > Apple Macintosh System Software v. 6.0.7. > ... > > Compatible / Incompatible Applications > > This list represents partial testing on Liken 1.0 , as of publishing > time. Compatible applications were loaded after Liken was successfully > installed using a distribution on a 1.44 MB diskette. > > > Compatible Incompatible > > Hypercard 2.0 Any app which uses > Microsoft Word 4.0 V7.0 Installer > Micorsoft Excel 3.0 SimCity > MacWrite II Canvas V3.0 > WordPerfect 2.0 FrameMaker > MacDraw II ResEdit2.1 > M.Y.O.B. 2.0 > Aldus PageMaker 4.01 > Quicken 1.5 > Cosmic Osmo > Where in the World is > Carmen San Diego V1.3 > MacPaint 2.0 > FileMakerPro 1.0V2 > Microsoft Works 2.00e > Microsoft Powerpoint 2.01 > Reader Rabbit 2.2 > Math Rabbit 1.0 > Crystal Quest V2.20 ... >>From: dwatola@praha.jpl.nasa.gov (David A. Watola) >> >>this is just another data point for people interested in mac emulators. >>xcelerated systems, inc. of san diego have a software emulator for the mac >>that runs on the sparcstation. it is also priced at $700 but is already >>complete!!! >> >>i saw a demo yesterday (you can get a time-limited demo from the company; >>i have no idea what the address and phone number is) and it runs >>system 6.0.7 (not system 7 yet), but not multifinder. other than that, it is >>a real mac!!! >> >>perhaps someone can convince the company to port this puppy to the next? it >>would be nice to have a little competition/incentive for ardi to lower >>their price. >> >>on a related note, i suspect that xcelerated systems will get jumped on by >>apple before ardi does when it comes to 'look-n-feel' lawsuits. their >>product's >>future probably will help determine executor's. I would like to point out a few things: David Watola's "also priced at $700 but is already complete" suggests that ARDI is selling an incomplete version of Executor for $700. This is not the case. Our pricing is based on how many applications out of a specific set of applications you wish to run on how many machines. I usually refer to the set of applications that add to the cost as "Big Ticket" apps. They are (in no particular order): Microsoft Word Microsoft Excel Microsoft Works Microsoft PowerPoint Microsoft Schedule Claris MacProject Claris MacDraw II Claris MacPaint II Claris MacDraw Pro Claris MacWrite II Claris Filemaker Pro Claris CAD Claris Resolve Claris Works Hypercard DeltaGraph QuarkXPress FoxBase+ PageMaker Nisus More GreatWorks KaleidaGraph Fontographer Canvas 3.0 CricketGraph AutoCad To figure out how much a given configuration of Executor costs, you multiply the number of the above listed applications by the number of machines on which you wish to run Executor and that gives you the number of units that you're purchasing. Multiply the cost per unit times the number of units and you have the price. Cost per unit depends on number of units: 1 $80 2-9 $70 10-59 $60 >= 60 $50 ===>Right now we're shipping Executor-MSW V1.1.1, which only supports Microsoft Word 4. We're beta testing support for Excel, and hope to be able to support all the listed apps by the end of the year.<=== As we support more on our list, if the number of apps that you want to run brings the total up beyond $700, then we cap the price at $700. No applications other than the ones on the "big ticket" list are locked out. Currently, with V1.1.1 released, most other large applications don't work, but that is changing. I think our pricing structure is eminently superior to "everyone pays $700." I haven't dwelled too much on our price in the net because I didn't want to anger the people that get angered over such things, but we're using a pricing structure that we think is beneficial to everyone, students and non-students. The only way you'll have to pay $700 is if you already have a significant investment in software that is on the "big ticket" list and you want to be able to run it all. Other than pricing, the big difference between Liken and Executor is that Liken requires you to somehow obtain a System 6.0.7 file. Please note, they do not include this with their product. The licensing agreement for System 6.0.7 says that you can't run it on a non-Mac. However, companies frequently put stuff in their licensing agreements that won't hold up in court. The bottom line is that in order to use their software you have to violate the wording of that license agreement, something that Excelerated themselves aren't willing to do, otherwise they'd obtain copies of System 6.0.7 and ship them with their product. Executor doesn't require the Apple ROMs, or an Apple System File. We have rewritten the code within the ROMs and the System File from scratch. That is why we are currently behind in the compatibility game. I personally hope that Excelerated is allowed to do what they're doing. I think that the limitation of Apple software to Apple hardware smacks of stuff that IBM used to do until Amdahl took them to court over matters antitrust. If Excelerated's methodology holds up, then ARDI will probably add code to give you the option to use code out of an Apple System File (We'd make it an option instead of totally switching over, because it's a liability when you're running on a non-68k machine, like the SPARC, because the code contained in the System File is all 68k based). >>perhaps someone can convince the company to port this puppy to the next? it >>would be nice to have a little competition/incentive for ardi to lower >>their price. I suspect that this statement was made because our pricing policy wasn't clear. I hope it is now. I hope people aren't going to ask for a discount beyond the ($50 - $80) present price. The V1.2 manuals alone alone are going to cost us about $15 a piece. I maintain that what we're proposing is a very good bargain for everyone and I'm glad you've tolerated the few dollar signs that were necessary for this post. The bottom line is a function of cost, compatibility and performance. Currently we're the leader on the NeXT, because we're the only player on the NeXT. However, we'll be taking the battle (pardon the metaphor, I actually feel a bit of comradery with all the people/companies taking on Apple's perceived legal stance) onto their turf (SPARC) later this year, where we will also do battle with Quorum's Mac compatibility software. I don't see anyone touching us on price; with our dynamic recompilation I suspect we'll win on performance and our compatibility is getting better every day (every minute I'm not writing mail or news). --Cliff[ord T.] Matthews iclone!ctm@unmvax.cs.unm.edu Abacus R&D, Inc. (505) 766-9115
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Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ncar!unmvax!ctm From: iclone!ctm@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Clifford T. Matthews) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: data point: non-ardi, (non-next) mac emulator Message-ID: <1992Apr10.185313.14252@unmvax.cs.unm.edu> Date: 10 Apr 92 18:53:13 GMT Sender: ctm@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Clifford T. Matthews) Organization: ARDI Lines: 194