🚀 go-pugleaf

Anwar Mohammed writes
> In article <1992Oct29.080824.29339@cubetech.com> andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew  
Loewenstern) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct27.210520.996@news.media.mit.edu>  
wave@waits.media.mit.edu (Michael B. Johnson) writes:
> >>Anwar Mohammed writes
> >>> 
> >>> Hi folks,
> >>> 
> >>> I do some volunteer work publishing newsletters.  I may also be
> >>> designing some brochures soon. Using Framemaker for these 
> >>> purposes is painful. I've used Pagemaker on Macs, to date.
> >>> The latest NeXTWorld had good reviews of the various software 
> >>> packages.
> >>> 
> >>> PasteUp sounds ideal, but their academic pricing scheme is priced 
> >>> way out of my price range.  The combined academic pricing of 
> >>> executor (which I'll be buying anyway) and either Pagemaker 
> >>> or QuarkXpress is lower.
> >>
> >>Academic pricing?  What academic pricing?  I'm a big fan of buying  
software,  
> >>and own real copies bought with my own money of Create, Frame, Microphone, 
> >>Simon Says, Diagram!, Concurrence, Virtuoso, and a few other packages.  I  
was 
> >>all set to plunk down some cash for PasteUp until I found out that they  
have NO  
> >>academic pricing.  Come on guys, get real.  Better to sell a couple hundred  
(or
> >>a couple thousand) academic copies at $100 to $200, than none at all.  As  
it
> >>is I'll use Frame until Pages comes out...
> >
> >Pages != PasteUp
> >
> >Pages is a page-layout application for entities (companies or
> >institutions) that need/want a consistant look throughout all their
> >documents.  Rather than spending time teaching each person which
> >styles to use where and hoping they use them right, one person creates
> >a "Design Module" which defines what documents look like, and the
> >software limits what the user can do according to the design module.
> >It's really killer stuff, but it's not the same as PasteUp (which is
> >free-form down and dirty page-layout).  Both are great pieces of
> >software, but neither is a replacement for the other.  I think Pages
> >(Pages plus the Designer Edition) will be more expensive than PasteUp
> >too.
> >
> >Also, Archetype is a long ways away from release (I talked to someone
> >from Archetype last Wednesday who said it would be about a year) since
> >they are trying to create something a bit more obtuse than PasteUp.
> >
> >In any event, if you want at discount on PasteUp, call NeXTconnection.
> >Deep discounts for students is not a right.  Many companies just can't
> >afford it.  PasteUp is a really neat app, but it's a page-layout app.
> >While PasteUp is easier to use than any other page-layout app I've
> >seen on Macintosh that has similar capabilities, it's still a
> >page-layout app.  Support is really expensive for page-layout apps.
> >Just go down to your local bookstore and count the number of PageMaker
> >books.
> >
> >So put yourself in the software company's shoes (in this case a rather
> >small one) before you scream to the net.
> 
> No one is screaming here.  I stated a fact: I cannot afford PasteUps 
> pricing and am looking for alternatives.  Michael thinks RightBrain's
> Academic pricing scheme is unrealistc and presents a reasonable reason
> for having lower pricing.  I've followed suit in a subsequent posting.
> 
> Contrary to the academe-bashing we see here every once in a while, 
> we do *not* see academic pricing as a right.  We merely choose to 
> take advantage of it whever it is presented to us as an option.
> 
> It my post was seen as an attack on RightBrain, I assure you it wasn't.
> 
> >

Yea, ditto.  I wasn't claiming academic pricing as a right - I was trying to  
make known my puzzlement over Right Brain's seeming lack of good business sense  
in not having any.  I just paid $295 for Virtuoso - if they didn't have  
academic pricing, I know Altsys would have never gotten any money from me, and  
they wouldn't have had a loud-mouthed fan (It's a wonderful program - great  
text handling, and awesome if you're a real graphic designer who does  
production work, like my girlfriend).  Same thing with Stone Design - I paid  
$250 for Create with a manual and support, and I tell everybody I know what  
great products they make (just ask!).  Companies light LightHouse Design  
embarrass me in that they sell their software to the academic market at such an  
amazingly low price that I feel guilty buying it (I use Diagram at least twice  
a day, and Concurrence has served me well for many a presentation). 

I know full well that Pages != PasteUp.  I've been looking forward to Pages for  
over two years, and can't wait until they ship.  Paste Up fits that uneasy  
niche between FrameMaker (a usable, portable among all my jobs, word  
processor), Virtuoso (a very professional drawing package and excellent  
single-page layout program), and Pages (the future of word processing).  I was  
very interested a few months ago in purchasing a copy, and expected, as a  
graduate student, to pay about $250 for it.  I was surprised and disappointed  
when I found out that there was only a single price for PasteUp, and they had  
no intent of making an academic price.  

As I've said before, and I thought reasonably and quietly, I think academic  
pricing is a privelege, not a right, and it makes good business sense.   
Students tend to be more willing to futz around with software, and can usually  
make do without a manual or phone help, especially when on-line doc is  
available.  Students also tend to be vocal evangelists for software they like,  
and tend to get consulted by staff, faculty, and business associates about  
purchasing decisions.  A reasonably priced academic version that sells for   
(cost + overhead + modest profit) makes good business sense - I really think  
that's hard to argue against.  A new product needs momentum, and momentum comes  
from a large user base with big, complimentary mouths, which students (when  
they have good software which works as advertised) tend to be.

Again, this isn't intended as a flame against Right Brain, but I wish they  
would change their mind.  Especially given the fact that two of the more  
net-savvy folk work there...  Ah well, maybe the flames scared them off.  sigh.

--

-->  Michael B. Johnson
-->  MIT Media Lab      --  Computer Graphics & Animation Group
-->  (617) 253-0663     --  wave@media-lab.media.mit.edu
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