🚀 go-pugleaf

- > >The bottom line...
- > >Students often have little or no money. Students often get special
- > >treatment in light of that fact. Small business people often have little 
- > >or no money. They  get no special treatment. Students should consider
- > >themselves fortunate in many  ways. I don't mind when they "request" a 
- > >special discounted price on  software, I get truly outraged when the 
- > >"demand" it.

  As a student, I have never demanded a discount of any thing or any body.  I  
don't have alot of money.  1/2 of what I make in a year goes to the UC Regents  
( thanks alot Pete Wilson for raising my fees by 91% ), and most of the rest  
goes to pay for rent, food, and to feed the wife and kid.  Lets face it, we all  
have the same problem.  Really cool/good software cost bucks.  Money that some  
of us just don't have.  The only thing that I have been able to afford is a $40  
debugger front end, and the package 3.0 CD-Rom upgrade ( using my tax return  
checks ).  I do agree with you that people who demand some kind of discount for  
whatever status, should be drawn and quartered.  If they want to give me a  
discount, I'll take it.

- > Well, a student has no choice than not to earn a lot of money, since
- > he not only spends his time learning instead of producing, but even
- > PAYS TO BE ABLE TO WORK i.e. spell tuition.
- > A student does a favor to society by elevating at least the
- > international competitiveness of a country by having qualified labour
- > force and at best by helping the country to flourish culturally.
- > But for this service he has to take many disadvantages in monetary
- > respect. So it is perfectly fair to recognize that by providing
- > discounts. 
- >

  Some students have there pockets well lined by mumsy and daddy, although that  
was never my problem.  Others manage to make pretty good money somehow, but  
quite a few have a minimalistic lifestyle.  Most of the student NeXT owners  
will start half way between minimalists and good money earners and go up from  
there.  As I said before, student discount or not, I can barley afford to keep  
up in with the OS releases, but I knew this when I got into this game.  The OD  
thing was bothersome, but hey,  Mine still works, and by the time I can afford  
a new motherboard I'll probably be able to afford a tape drive too!
  I wouldn't hold your breath over "flourish culturally", at least not at UCSD.

- Get a life, you wooley headed fool! I'm sick of hearing the plight of the  
- students, whining like spoiled children and screaming about the "evil  
- capitalist world" they live in. You sound like you don't know squat about the  
- real world.
-

  Flame bait.  Cool your jets pall, unless all you want to see is a whole bunch  
of "Get a life you jerk!" exchanges.  There are whole other groups for this  
kind of behavior.

- > (Small) Businesses however exist to provide services FOR PROFIT. The
- > market decides if these services are worth money or not. This is a
- > free country. If you don't earn money with your enterprise there are
- > three reasons and three consequences:
- > a) You're too dumb => quit the job,
- >                       THEN
- > 			  a) go to business school 
- 
- Land of the losers

  Add in law school and I'll agree 8-)

- >                       OR 
- >                           b) seek employment
- Which one day you will, my bucko
- 
- > b) You're a startup => it takes a price if you want to become filthy
- > rich, just wait.
- Or you're pursuing a dream, or your trying to feed the mouths of hungry 
- people around the family table, or a myriad of other factors.
- 

  Students aren't immune to this.  I have a newborn son.  My wife can't work  
right now, and next year she's going to get her teaching credential and will be  
really busy for the whole year.  Maybe my case isn't typical, but there are  
lots of students that are doing all they can to make ends meet.  It barley  
works for me.  It doesn't work for many.

- > c) Your services/products are not what the market wants
- >                     => switch business
- Hide in school.
- 

  You say this like it's some kind of sanctuary.  Maybe, if you pick some  
simplistic major.  But if you want to get out with a degree you can do  
something with, be ready to work your ass off.

- > 
- > The bottom line...
- >  a business that does not pay well can go down the tube, I don't care.
- > If you like what you are doing, be an artist, hobbyist or what else,
- > but don't complain. You already HAD your education, it's up to you to
- > do now what you want with it. If you don't earn enough then change
- > your situation and don't bitch.
- > Students by definition can't earn money (except maybe with drug
- > dealing...). They will not be students forever and then face the same
- > situation as anyone who is not a student right now.
- > 
- > Enough said.
- > 
- > Ronald 
- >  
-  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- > "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one  
- > persistsin trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
- > depends on  the unreasonable man."   G.B. Shaw   |  rca@cs.brown.edu or  
- > antony@browncog.bitnet
- 
- Ah, you poor well read, intellectual snob. It's easy to see the reason I have  
- to side with Steak Face. Students whine. And their educators join in. The  
- argument is old and boring. You took the bait he laid out for you, and you're  
- choking on it.
- 
- Why can't students realize that they get the best breaks? Life's a tough one.  
- Don't spend it pissing and moaning about the student software discounts from  
- the industry. DO SOMETHING USEFUL!!!
- 

  His argument may not have been too persuasive, but yours is even less so.   
Much of your response is inflamitory, reactionary, and pointless.  Life is  
tough, for all but a fortunate few of us.  Student's get some breaks, but we  
get screwed alot too.  
  Most of us are in the Real World(TM) too.  Don't lump us all together and  
treat us like some kind of second class citizens.  In doing so you show an  
incredible amount of ignorance.

- --
- Sean Church	| "NeXTStep 3.0 : It just works" S.J., Next world '92 
- sean@pages.com	| "NetInfo : It just breaks " S.C.,San Diego '92
- "Yeah, though I work on the verge of the crash, I will fear no NetInfo"
- Standard Disclaimers apply
- -- 
- Sean Church	| "NeXTStep 3.0 : It just works" S.J., Next world '92 
- sean@pages.com	| "NetInfo : It just breaks " S.C.,San Diego '92
- "Yeah, though I work on the verge of the crash, I will fear no NetInfo"

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=   Eschew Obfuscation          Next Mail Welcome   =
+   James "Zeke" Dehnert  ..ucsd!crash!znext!zeke   +
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