NeXTSTEP project management

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4 total messages Started by Art Isbell Tue, 04 Aug 1992 16:56

#439

Author: Art Isbell
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1992 16:56

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NeXTSTEP app architecture is getting quite complex under 3.0.  No longer is
an app development confined to a single directory even in the simplest case.
So implementing version control has become more difficult.

However, CVS (Concurrent Versions System) seems up to the task, especially
version 1.3.  However, ProjectBuilder and InterfaceBuilder don't work with CVS
very well.  CVS maintains a directory containing a couple of small housekeeping
files in each directory under CVS control, which can include nib directories
(under 3.0, nibs are directories instead of files) since CVS uses a new version
of diff that can produce diffs of binary files.  This means that previous
versions of nibs can be maintained and retrieved, a real nice feature.
However, during the app build process, ProjectBuilder copies everything in the
nib directories including the CVS directories into the app itself where it's
really not needed (3.0 doesn't put nibs into Mach-O nib sections but maintains
them as directories within the *.app, *.debug, or *.profile directory).  This
doesn't seem to hurt the app other than making it somewhat bigger than
necessary.  I've added a make target in Makefile.postamble that strips these
CVS directories from the executable when "make install" is run, so that problem
is somewhat solvable.

However, when IB saves modified nibs, the CVS directories are lost.  So
subsequent checkin's to CVS fail to checkin changed nibs.  This is more
difficult to deal with.  I've written a couple of make targets that deal with
this problem, but one must be run before any nibs are saved and the other,
after the last save just prior to the CVS checkin, so it's not foolproof.  I
could hack the CVS source code probably, but the more appropriate fix might be
for NeXT to make its tools like ProjectBuilder and InterfaceBuilder cooperate
with CVS, unless other project management tools exist that already work.

Which brings up the question about what project management tools are available
for NeXTSTEP?  NeXT must use something internally, but what?  Are commercial
solutions available?  What does the development community use?  CVS is free and
quite good, it seems, but it has problems working within the 3.0 development
environment, so I'd like to hear suggestions.
-- 

Art Isbell                                                      Cubic Solutions
NeXT Registered Developer #745         NeXT software development and consulting
Email: isbell@cats.UCSC.EDU                                Voice: (408)335-1154
USmail: 95018-9442                                           Fax: (408)335-2515

Re: NeXTSTEP project management

#467

Author: Federico Heinz
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1992 09:38

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In article <15mcs2INNj31@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> isbell@cats.ucsc.edu (Art Isbell)  
writes:
> NeXTSTEP app architecture is getting quite complex
> under 3.0.  No longer is an app development confined to a
> single directory even in the simplest case. So
> implementing version control has become more
> difficult.
> 
> However, CVS (Concurrent Versions System) seems up to
> the task, especially version 1.3.  However,
> ProjectBuilder and InterfaceBuilder don't work with
> CVS very well.

You guys at NeXT, if there is *any* chance, PLEASE fix this, or give us a  
decent workaround. CVS really is such a nice version/configuration control  
system, so wonderfully unintrusive that I would really hate to have to give  
it up. Furthermore, I guess the described behavior (losing all non  
IB-generated files within a directory kept under revision control) will break  
quite a lot of other administrative schemes I have seen.

PLEASE, take a look at it. Project management is a very important issue, and  
you are blowing a hole into my (and Art's, and certainly a lot of other  
people's) work environment.

	Federico Heinz

Re: NeXTSTEP project management

#478

Author: Royce Howland
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1992 02:22

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federico@heinz.in-berlin.de (Federico Heinz) writes:

>In article <15mcs2INNj31@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> isbell@cats.ucsc.edu (Art Isbell)  
>writes:
>> NeXTSTEP app architecture is getting quite complex
>> under 3.0.  No longer is an app development confined to a
>> single directory even in the simplest case. So
>> implementing version control has become more
>> difficult.
>> 
>> However, CVS (Concurrent Versions System) seems up to
>> the task, especially version 1.3.  However,
>> ProjectBuilder and InterfaceBuilder don't work with
>> CVS very well.

>You guys at NeXT, if there is *any* chance, PLEASE fix this, or give us a  
>decent workaround. CVS really is such a nice version/configuration control  
>system, so wonderfully unintrusive that I would really hate to have to give  
>it up. Furthermore, I guess the described behavior (losing all non  
>IB-generated files within a directory kept under revision control) will break  
>quite a lot of other administrative schemes I have seen.

>PLEASE, take a look at it. Project management is a very important issue, and  
>you are blowing a hole into my (and Art's, and certainly a lot of other  
>people's) work environment.

I concur.  As a professional software developer, IMO any system that
claims to be a hot development platform but doesn't provide a method
for version control, configuration management, etc., has a major hole
that needs filling.  Since CVS and RCS are free and good, why not
make them work?  Easier than coming up with something brand new, and
better than doing nothing.

If the previous statements to which I'm adding my voice are erroneous,
or you're already doing something, feel free to ignore us.  Otherwise,
don't.  :~)
-- 
Royce Howland   --   Everything is IMHO   |  "I can eat enormous quantities
royce@splunge.uucp        (NeXTMail OK)   |   of ice-cream without being sick,
or royce%splunge@atlantis.uucp            |   Mrs. S-C-U-M."  --Mr. Neutron
or alberta!atlantis!splunge!royce or ...  |   C86Net: Mr._Neutron@RT.Alta

Re: NeXTSTEP project management

#511

Author: Paul Kunz
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1992 04:06

27 lines
1880 bytes

In article <1992Aug6.093850.28435@heinz.in-berlin.de> federico@heinz.in-berlin.de (Federico Heinz) writes:

   You guys at NeXT, if there is *any* chance, PLEASE fix this, or give us a  
   decent workaround. 
   [ comments deleted ]

I think this bug was found too late.   I'm the one who found it and
alerted NeXT and Art Isbell.   The final release is scheduled
for the end of this month.   The "freeze" of what's in it has
probably already been done.   

Why didn't I find it sooner?   Because I only recently converted to CVS.

So the CVS users amongst us had best start working on a work-around.
Art has produced a Makefile.postamble that helps, but even he is 
not completely satisfied with it.

With ProjectBuilder and the way gdb and Edit work together in NS 3.0,
it's even more apparent then before that a missing application in
the NeXT environment is project management.   I think, for example,
ProjectBuilder needs a published API so we can add CVS functions to it.
Or maybe someone is clever enough to figure out how to use Services
to extend PB with CVS functions.
--
Paul F. Kunz	(NeXT mail ok)
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, Stanford University
Voice: (415) 926-2884   (NeXT) Fax: (415) 926-3587

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