🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <40p4eo$qeo@caesar.ultra.net>,
Steve Bakke  <bakke@ultranet.com> wrote:
>In article <40oefn$19vs@hopi.gate.net> Chad Irby, cirby@news.gate.net
>writes:
>>PJ (pjuang@hawking.nhgs.tec.va.us) wrote:
>>
>>: >Motherboard $650   - funny, how P5/90s go for $150, and you spend more
>>: >                     than $500 for a freaking motherboard
>>
>
>Think man!  That price you are thinking of comes from volume discounts
>that motherboard manufacturers get.  You know, the pricing for lots of
>5000 or 10000?
>(Not to mention that it's still more expensive than that)
>Go ahead and buy your cheap little motherboard if it exists.  I wonder
>what it's performance would be.
        ^-- no apostrophe here, sir.

  Please pick up the latest copy of MicroTimes (The one I have here
is July 24th) and turn to page 347.  The prices here are a little 
higher than what pjuang mentioned, but it's possible that he knows
of a cheaper source than this one (*very* possible; endless nooks 
and crannies exist in the PC market).

  P-90 VLB+PCI,  256K L2 cache .... $168
  486DX2/80 VLB, 128K L2 cache .... $ 90

** CHANGE OF SUBJECT ** CHANGE OF SUBJECT ** CHANGE OF SUBJECT **

  Tangentally related to the subject above is the question of why
PowerPC system hardware is so expensive.  The CPU itself is rela-
tively inexpensive, but the surrounding hardware is outrageous. 
I was hoping to see hardware come out which was similar to what's
available for PC's today -- ~$200 motherboard, with bus slots for
standard peripherals and SIMM slots for memory, modest BIOS ROMs,
L2 cache extension sockets, and a dedicated plug for the keyboard.
  When I heard about the PPC-specific support circuit Motorola put
on a single die, I was thrilled.  I thought that surely this would
make PPC motherboards even less expensive..

  It hasn't turned out that way.  The systems available integrate
everything but the kitchen sink onto the motherboard, which you
would think would make it less expensive than an equivalent modular
system, but which are actually about 2x as expensive.  The only
people selling a reasonably-priced PPC system is Apple, and even
they are charging too much for what I perceive as crappy hardware,
a closed system, and a single choice of OS (and a lousy OS at that).

  Is nobody targeting PPC systems at the mass PC market?  The only
people buying Apple hardware are Apple users, and that isn't very
many people.  Until modular, open PPC systems start appearing for
$1500 or so, PC buyers will have no choice but to continue buying
Wintel systems.  Or is that the point?  Nobody is willing to make
a PPC-based PC that would have to compete against Wintel?  That's
real dumb, because the PC market is where the MONEY is.

  If anybody with a CE degree is listening out there, consider 
building a PPC PC board with just the plain old ISA+VLB, keyboard
port, sockets for SIMMs, and a ROM socket.  Since Motorola's 
control chip is supposed to do it all the thing should be able
to be made very very small (ie, inexpensive to manufacture).  
Contact me and I'll scrape together a couple of other enthusiastic 
OS designers and we'll make a modern operating system for it.  We
can port some applications, plug it into PC cases, fill it with
ordinary PC peripherals, and make a killing on the market.  If 
VLB's too hard, we can start with ISA and get fancy later.  It's
possible to do reasonably fast graphics, even with plain ISA, if
the processor is good and the programmers are good (theoretical
sustainable limit of about 25fps at 640x480 res).  A fast 286/DOS
emulator will help it compete, too, and that's not too hard to
do .. just a little tedious.  (386 emulation, on the other hand,
would be *hard*..  But one thing at a time.)

  -- ttk@rahul.net
-- 
Bill Moyer <ttk@rahul.net>