🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <40oipr$257@sashimi.wwa.com>, blackbob@sashimi.wwa.com (G) wrote:

> In article <40nrin$1dbk@seminole.gate.net>,
> Chad Irby <cirby@news.gate.net> wrote:

> >Where do you get this?  I can't find RAM *anywhere* for under $38/meg.
> >So this is $300.
> 
> I have seen 1 MB SIMMs for $25 used.  I'd be thrilled to get anywhere
> near $38 for mine.

Used? Can I give you a price on a used 7100/80 for comparison?

> >: $120 for 240 MB HD,
> >
> >Comparing to a 500+ meg HD on the Mac.  240 megs isn't enough for *any* 
> >modern computer.  But you can get a 500 meg HD for about $200.
> 
> Then your software is bloated.  I'm happily using Linux in
> 240 MB (and not because I'm cheap; I have an unused 170 MB
> connected...I can't find use for it, though!)

Terry, it's not the software. If you do anything meaningful it's probably
the files taking up all of that space. I deal with ~300MB of files on my
machine at home. At work it's 3x that and I haven't even begun playing
with video yet.

> >: $10 for keyboard, $20 for mono monitor/card,
> >
> >Sorry- Monochrome is 1970s technology.  
> 
> Uh, the Macintosh Classic, released in what, 1990, had monochrome,
> no?  ;-)
>
> But seriously, many people do not WANT color.  If I had SVGA
> hardware, I'd still use it in text mode 100% of the time (and
> I would be completely wasting the money for the SVGA hardware).

Many people? 100 people can be called 'many' people. What about most
people? Let's try and stick close to most people. If even 25% of the
personal computer buying public would be happy with monochrome I'd give it
to you. Since even fanatical Mac people won't put up with monochrome, I'd
say we have to put color VGA as a bare minimum.

> >But I'll let you buy a nice SVGA card for $100.  And a basic monitor
> >for $250. (13" 640 by 480)
> 
> This is really very inflated.  Before its retirement, my
> SVGA hardware (14" 1024 by 768 and 1 MB card) cost $175 
> together.  Would you like a copy of the check?

No. How about pricing those again today. Hell, you could have traded in an
old Impala to get that price... ;-)

> >: $10 for I/O card,
> >: $50 for PS, $0 for Linux...we're talking ~$700 for the absolute
> >: perfect computer (okay, okay, add $1000 to replace the Pentium MB
> >: with an Alpha if you want to get real dreamy).
> >
> >Oh- and we forgot the modem.  And your extras.  And the CD-ROM.
> 
> My comments about the SVGA hardware apply to the CD-ROM.  I DON'T
> WANT IT!

But most people do want it. We can't compare based on isolated cases which
you are clearly one of. By the same token I could claim that everything I
need to do would be satisfied by a used MacPlus for $50 - we need to
discuss mainstream if we wish to compare. 

The proper way of doing this would be to take a large sample of users and
compare all of their needs against what is available. You would be
averaged almost completely out of the picture. Let's instead look at the
mainstream, where the average tends to be. Right now, the 5200 is the
average Mac and the P75 seems to be the average PC. Since you can't even
buy a Mac without a CD, I'll assume that a CD is considered standard right
now. 8 MB seems to be standard. 500+MB HD seem about standard. SVGA seems
standard. Let's stick to these, won't we?

> >No- we're talking at least 
> >           $1700
> >
> >...and you can get a PMac 5200 for about that- with more RAM and a bigger 
> >monitor.
> 
> For $1700, you can replace the Pentium + MB for one of the
> $1300 DEC Alpha MB's, run all of the above hardware (I think it
> even includes the stuff on the I/O board), and have the
> fastest microprocessor on the planet.

Have the fastest microprocessor on the planet hooked to a $20 monochrome
monitor? Will that let me run Telnet faster than my MacPlus?

> Also, the PC is running Linux, so we'll need an extremely stable
> UN*X for the Macintosh.  So we'll add AUX for $x00.  Woops, doesn't
> run on a Power Macintosh.  Looks like we're back at square one.
> Maybe NT will do, though.

Why? You talk Linux for free but there aren't more stable OS's out there?
If you need to max out on stability then you need to buy more than Linux
by your own previous admission. If we want to stick to mainstream then
it's MacOS and Win.

> >...but the cheapo motherboards aren't.  And the I/O card isn't.  And the 
> >keyboard is a $10 piece of crap.  And due to the low prices here, a lot 
> >of this stuff isn't "name brand" anyway.  And when the incompatibilities 
> >start popping up...
> 
> You keep mentioning silly problems like this.  What the heck is
> wrong with my $10 keyboard?  It's like six years old and works just
> fine.  If it's not name brand, but works, what's the problem?  What
> incompatibilities does putting machines together piece by piece
> cause?  Please mention specific events, not ``I know tons of people
> who have problems''.

Again, YOUR $10 keyboard works fine, but unless you can prove that your
$10 keyboard is just as comfortable (I'd like to not wind up with any more
RSI than necessary, thank you) or reliable as a $75 keyboard then I'll
make the case for the extended keyboard I found in the trash for free - my
free keyboard is better than your $10 one. Aren't isolated cases fun?

> >So to summarize: for the same amount of money, you get a slower, less- 
> >capable machine (lousy graphics), and you still have to assemble it 
> >yourself.  Bargain City.
> 
> I can assure you that the aformentioned Alpha PC is quite a bit
> faster than the 5200.

Faster, but not more flexible or useful for the average person.

> Look at ME.  I do NOT want CD-ROM, graphics, sound, etc.  etc.
> I want a text only platform with a lot of CPU power, and sufficient
> memory (RAM and HD).  If I have to pay for stuff I don't use, then,
> well, I may as throw out money.  I do NOT experience incompatibility
> problems, borken hardware, etc. etc.  For >> ME <<, is there ANY
> reason why it would be more cost effective to buy a Macintosh
> instead of a PC?

If you don't want any of those things then why are you participating here?
To gloat? No, you don't benefit from buying a Mac, but you might very well
be one of the 1% of the population that doesn't. Feel better now?

-- 
Bob Cassidy
UC Irvine