🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1991Feb25.160352.14488@cbnewsj.att.com>, jwi@cbnewsj.att.com
(Jim Winer @ AT&T, Middletown, NJ) writes:
> | I wrote:
> | |If you are professional writers, you won't like either Framemaker
or Publisher.
This is obviously untrue.  I am a professional writer with 12 years of
experience.  I 
like FrameMaker, and, if properly used, I like Ventura Publisher.

> | |They are very easy to use for a novice, you just follow the menus. If you
> | |do something else for a living, this is ideal. If you write for a living,
> | |you will find that you have to follow the menus every time -- there are
> | |no shortcuts. It will drive you batty.
This is also untrue.  You do not have to follow menus in FrameMaker. 
There are emacs-type 
keybindings for many functions, and also a macro language that you can
use to automate 
procedures.  If you don't think this is powerful or "manly" enough, you
can save your FrameMaker
and Publisher files as ASCII files and edit them directly...  That is
how I normally work 
with Ventura Publisher.

> | |You will also find that the integrated art is for amateurs too. If you are
> | |used to doing good art on your Macs, plan on driving your artists
up a wall.
Oh, I get it.  The M-word.  FrameMaker has an excellent drawing package.
 If you find 
it inadequate for your needs, you can supplement it with Island
Graphic's paint program.
Ventura does have limited graphics support, but it supports enough
graphics formats to 
allow you to use powerful third-party tools for preparing artwork.

> | |In general, Framemaker and Publisher are good for projects where
documentation
> | |is an afterthought. They are not compatible with people who write
or draw for
> | |a living, but they are very good for engineers and supervisiors.
Ventura Publisher is adequate for many publishing needs.  FrameMaker is,
in point of 
fact, superior to most packages available for engineers, as its equation
formatting 
is better than any other available - save that you can fine-tweak TeX
output more.  Very 
few supervisors need sophisticated formatting, except for creating foils
(projection 
displays).  In this regard, Ventura and FrameMaker are both rather
mediocre, as their 
table-formatting capabilities are limited.  (Don't expect them to stay
that way.)

> | Brian Diehm wrote:	
> |    * This is, without a doubt, THE most ridiculous assertion I have EVER *
> |    * read on the net. And I used to subscribe to groups on politics      *
This is probably a modest exaggeration.

> Gee, Brian, you must be one of those engineers.  Sorry that your
milage varies,
> but that's the way that Framemaker and Publisher are. -- nice for supervisors
> and engineers and stinky for writers and artists.  It's basically the IBM
> problem of trying to be everything for everybody and as a result being
> mediocre at everything.  But the perhaps you think mediocre is wondeful.
Jim, I think your comments are easily discounted in this newsgroup. 
This is a largely 
professional publishing audience you are exposing yourself to, not a
bunch of Mac fans.
BTW, are you aware that FrameMaker is available for the Mac?  Perhaps
you could try it.

> Incidently, I think that it's rather ridiculous to complain about
> another post without indicating what you object to -- sort of makes you
> sound like you don't know what you're talking about so you make noise
> instead.  Try being more specific -- then somebody can pick you apart instead
> of just thinking you're silly.
True.  The only reasonable statement you have made.  I don't normally
jump in like this,
but your statements deserve picking apart.

> Jim Winer -- jwi@mtfme.att.com -- Opinions not represent employer.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------


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