🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

2 total messages Started by Lani Hajagos Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:44
More FrameBuilder and SGML
#572
Author: Lani Hajagos
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:44
57 lines
3356 bytes
In article 1879@gmd.de, thomas@gmd.de asks "Are you claiming that there
is a one-to-one mapping between FrameBuilder documents and SGML
documents?   Or only that some (or even most) SGML documents can be
mapped into FrameBuilder, and vice versa?

I don't believe that any SGML product on the market currently supports
100% of of ISO 8879, so I certainly won't make the claim for
FrameBuilder. FrameBuilder represents the SGML entity structure of a
document without using SGML syntax. There are several SGML constructs
which have no direct correspondence in FrameBuilder:

- I mentioned attributes in my previous message. These can be mapped
into several different FrameBuilder structures, depending on their
intended usage. There is no concept of current or content reference
attributes, however.

- FrameBuilder has no direct analog to the SGML entity structure.
FrameBuilder's Book handles documents divided into multiple files,
although each document in the Book must be a complete element, and
books cannot be nested.

- FrameBuilder does not support SGML's optional LINK and CONCUR features.

SGML documents using syntax-specific SGML constructs such as markup
minimization or CDATA and RCDATA marked sections can be imported into
or exported out of FrameBuilder fairly easily. These constructs are
irrelvant to the FrameBuilder model, however, and have no counterpart
within FrameBuilder.

FrameBuilder does have a construct analogous to INCLUDE, IGNORE, and TEMP
marked sections. This construct, called Conditional Text, however,
does not support spanning partial elements.

Since FrameBuilder is an application for formatting structured
documents as well as an editor for manipulating them, the question of
whether FrameBuilder supports all possible SGML structures is less
meaningful than whether it supports them in the intended way. Because
the conceivable applications are unlimited, SGML was deliberately
defined so that no one system could do so.

For example, while FrameBuilder recognizes graphics in many file
formats, thereby supporting several data content notations, it
certainly does not recognize every possible graphics format. As another
example, tables can be represented in many ways in SGML. Of course the
possible element structures can be represented as element structures
within FrameBuilder. What is wanted, though, is a representation within
the rich table facility that FrameBuilder inherits from FrameMaker.
Very little programming is required to move the SGML tables we have
seen at Frame to and from the FrameBuilder table mechanism.  In its
initial release, FrameBuilder internally supports elements that
correspond to entire tables and allows table cells to contain
hierarchies of elements.  There are no elements for table rows or
columns, however, and there is no content model defining the order in
which particular types of cells are expected to occur.

I hope this answers your questions.
Re: More FrameBuilder and SGML
#577
Author: drmacro
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:03
86 lines
5054 bytes
If we take the InfoMaster Architecture as an application I might
want to implement support for in FrameBuilder, then I have the
following responses to this information.  The InfoMaster Architecture
is a document architecture (analogous to HyTime in approach and scope)
for internal IBM use that defines a set of architectural forms and
base semantics.  The following comments are as one of the definers
of the Architecture and should be taken as an IBM position in any
way.  This is purely my own opinion.

In <9301260142.AA02622@lani.corp.frame.com.frame> Lani Hajagos writes:

>- I mentioned attributes in my previous message. These can be mapped
>into several different FrameBuilder structures, depending on their
>intended usage. There is no concept of current or content reference
>attributes, however.

InfoMaster makes heavy use of content reference attributes (as does
DCF BookMaster and other similar non-SGML declarative markup languages),
both for cross-reference generation and, as an optional feature of
InfoMaster, to enable HyTime content extraction links (conlocx), in
order to re-use the content of an element by reference.  Perhaps
FrameBuilder will support these sorts of mechanisms some other way?

Support for CURRENT does not concern me, but we have defined in
InfoMaster a structure-based inheritance semantic for element
properties (attribute values), that can be modeled using HyTime
default value lists.  Would FrameBuilder provide a way to implement
this semantic?  The InfoMaster Architecture is largely concerned
with managing element properties and hyperlinks, either implicit
or explicit, between elements, to which processing and style can
be applied (e.g., When an element of GI "phrase" has the CLASS= value
"menuitem", present it in small caps AND create an implicit hyperlink
to the definition list item that has a content value that matches
the content of the phrase element and is also has a CLASS= value
of "menuitem" (which may be inherited from its parent)).

Perhaps the better question would be "how much programming work would
I have to do to implement these semantics under FrameBuilder."  A
little? A lot?

>- FrameBuilder has no direct analog to the SGML entity structure.
>FrameBuilder's Book handles documents divided into multiple files,
>although each document in the Book must be a complete element, and
>books cannot be nested.

InfoMaster does not depend on, or expect, any particular text entity
structure, but it does rely heavily on data entities and subdoc
entities.  FrameBuider would have to support preservation of
notation information as well as enable InfoMaster's application-defined
notation property inheritance semantic.  It would have to support,
or enable support of, subdoc entity references (at a minimum, from
ENTITY attributes if not within PCDATA), which InfoMaster uses
chiefly for cross-document hyperlinking.

>- FrameBuilder does not support SGML's optional LINK and CONCUR features.

My feelings on LINK are well known (see recent posts).  Were I
in a position to submit requirements to Frame (e.g., I was buying
the product), I would submit the requirement that FrameBuilder support
implicit and explicit LINK to enable indirect association between
elements and whatever Frame uses to define presentation style and
processing.  I would also like Frame's definition of style and
processing to be as interchangable as possible, but I wouldn't
force the issue (for example, if Frame's composition engine provided
all the composition function I needed for my enterprise's printed
documents AND I could use that composition engine as a batch
formatter across my enterprise, I might not have a need, within my
enterprise, to interchange style information).

>FrameBuilder does have a construct analogous to INCLUDE, IGNORE, and TEMP
>marked sections. This construct, called Conditional Text, however,
>does not support spanning partial elements.
>

While this imposes a constraint not imposed by 8879, I don't think
it's an unreasonable constraint from an InfoMaster Architecture point of
view, since the Architecture constrains all of its semantics to
the markup hierarchy as well.  It might, however, cause difficulty
for someone trying to import a document that relies on "asynchronous"
marked sections to do conditional processing.

Eliot Kimber                      Internet:  drmacro@ralvm13.vnet.ibm.com
Dept E14/B500                     IBMMAIL:   USIB2DK9@IBMMAIL
Network Programs Information Development     Phone: 1-919-543-7091
IBM Corporation
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
Thread Navigation

This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.

Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.

Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.

Back to All Threads