🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <3790@orca.WV.TEK.COM> brucec@demiurge.UUCP (Bruce Cohen) writes:
>In article <8210005@hp-lsd.HP.COM> davek@hp-lsd.HP.COM (Dave Kumpf) writes:
>>I'm looking for more information on SGML (Standard Generalized Markup
>>Language).  Books, reports, example applications, information on parsers,
>>etc. would all be welcome.
>>At the moment, all I have is "An Author's Guide
>>to SGML" and small familiarity with HP's internal use.  Are there any
>>newsgroups discussing SGML?

I assume the book you mean is
%T SGML: An Author's Guide to the...
%A Bryan, Martin
%D 1988
%I Addison-Wesley
%i 0-201-17535-5
%c QA76.73.S44B79/1988/005/88-24193

but this is a little dry for my tastes!  Skip the chapters on alphabets etc.!
Martin works for SOBEMAP, who distribute a Parser/translater that reads and
validates SGML.  You might reasonably point out that validating that a
document contains correct SGML is not in itself of any use.  You would be
right, but there's not much else that you can do with SGML right now!
Sobemap's product can also be used to turn SGML into (say) troff, with
a little effort.

> If you have access to an implementation of Framemaker (tm), a word
> processor from Frame in California, you can look at their ML format, which
> was an attempt to implement SGML before the standard was final.  It's not
> that far off.
SoftQuad's Author/Editor uses SGML on the Mac (other systems some time
this year, they say...)
Software Esoterica also have an SGML-conforming editor, as do (I think)
Datalogics.
SoftQuad's product is the best of these to look at if you want to find
out about SGML, I think.

Interleaf can read SGML files (but not, I think, write them).

Compugraphic are demonstrating a CALS-conforming
systeam (at least, they say it is!), which uses Author/Editor and Texet,
running on suns.

There is a long list of other products, ranging from a text database
(Officesmith) through to CD-ROM software.

I think we have a list somewhere...

Maybe we should include a Software Directory in the User's Group Bulletin.

The Oxford English Dictionary is an example of a book (well, lots of books,
18 month's of continuous typesetter output) that was marked up in SGML,
and typeset by Pindar Infotek of York.

An encycolpedia was published simultaneously in CD-ROM and book form, and
also made available on-line, using SGML.


There is also the SGML Users' Group.

For more info on this, you could contact
me (uunet!utai!anduk.uucp!lee), or
Steve Downie, (the Group's Secretary), uunet!utai!anduk.uucp!downie
Unixsys (UK) Ltd.,
The Genesis Centre, Garrett Field, Birchwood, Warrington, ENGLAND, WA3 7BH
Telephone +44 925 828181
Fax +44 925 827834

Ludo Van Vooren (ludo@sq.com, uunet!{utzoo,utai}!sq!ludo
SoftQuad Inc.,
720 Spadina Avenue, Toronto, CANADA, M5S 2T9
Tel. +1 416-963-8337

I have about a dozen other addresses too, for Brussels, Germany, Chicago,
Switzerland, ...

Either we or Ludo can put you in touch with a local SGML group.

If you are a military establishment (or deal with them in any way
whatsoever), you will also *need* to know about CALS before long.

CALS requires that all documentation is prepared electronically.
In SGML.

And this is an excellent decision, because it is not just device independent,
but technology-independent!  There would be no difficulty in arranging
for a voice-synth. to read an SGML document, when the technology
catches up.  Tricky with PostScript/TeX/troff/HPGL/...


You could order an evaluation copy of Author/Editor from SoftQuad, I imagine
(I don't know if they charge for that), or a copy of the manual:
%T Author/Editor
%A Shiff, Sharpe & Spencer
%I SoftQuad Inc.,
%D April 1989
%i 0-88910-303-8

This might help you get started, especially if you have a mac!
If anyone knows a better introduction to doing practical work with
SGML, I would very, very much like to hear about it!

The American Association of Publishers, AAP (or is is the Assoc. Am. Pub?),
have a Document Type Definition, and there are a number of American
Publishers who can take SGML.  I believe that Bantam can, but I'm not sure.

Publishers like it because once the Author and Publisher have agreed on a set
of tags, they can take the author's file and print it without haveing to go
through the ususal process of first stripping out all of the formatting
codes that the author put there, and then adding their own.

If you have ever had published a paper or book containing both emphasis
and key-words, and you used itlic for both of them... and the publisher
used bold for keywords (as is their right, of course; that's why
they employ designers)... you will have spent ages going through
the proofs marking whereever they got it wrong.

Not any more.  And this is a very small example.
It is still *normal* for a typesetting house to re-key your book by hand 
rather than go through the hassle of looking at your floppy disk.
Yes, *normal*.

SGML could change that.  (on the other hand.... :-( :-( )

>I don't know know of any news groups discussing SGML; I hang around here
>hoping for some discussion.  When I get to working on it seriously again
>(Real Soon Now), maybe I'll have something to contribute myself.

There don't seem to be any.

>Bruce Cohen
>brucec@orca.wv.tek.com

Sorry if this is a little garbled, it getteth late!

Lee (uunet!utai!anduk.uucp!lee)

-- 
Lee Russell Quin, Unixsys UK Ltd, The Genesis Centre, Birchwood,
Warrington, ENGLAND, WA3 7BH; Tel. +44 925 828181, Fax +44 925 827834
	lee%anduk.uucp@ai.toronto.edu;  {utzoo,uunet}!utai!anduk!lee
UK:	uu.warwick.ac.uk!anduk.co.uk!lee