Article View: comp.virus
Article #4283Re: FC on virus creation
From: John Mechalas
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1992 23:16
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1992 23:16
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4635 bytes
fc@turing.duq.edu (Fred Cohen) writes: >I am surprised that so many well respected Virus-L readers and writers >failed to understand the implication of creating 1500 viruses per day >that are not detected by existing scanners. The point is that the >number or percentqge of viruses detected is not as important as the >eff of the product. I am surprised that you fail to understand what the readers and writers are saying. The fact is, we already know that a scanner will not detect a new virus. I could sit down and write a virus that any signature-based scanner couldn't detect. So what if you can do it, too? I know what the implications are: scanners are limited. We already know that. Everyone seems to know that. Why do you think that your statement is so enlightening? It's old news. > Of the CARO collection of over 1500 viruses, only a small >portion have ever been found at a substantial number of sites, and >many are collector-only viruses that have never appeared in the wild. > > I am quite astounded by the concept that creating viruses in >the privacy of my home should offend anti-virus types. In fact, I >have had automated virus generation systems running for several years. >At one point, I was trying to create ecosystems by randomly generating >tens of thousands of candidates per day, many of which were successful >viruses. Why does this offend other researchers? And I take it from >some of the comments that these researchers have NEVER created a virus >of their own to explore the concept! It's sad that people who have >never tried it feel free to condemn it. Or have they done it and >simply don't have the integrity to admit it? Maybe they have the intergrity not to spread these viruses around. You say that "only a small portion have ever been founf at a substantial number of sites". I read this statement as meaning that you have created these viruses, and only a few of them have "gotten out". To me, that is irresponsible. If you want to create research viruses, fine. But if you let them spread, than that is *not* fine. > ASP has already introduced one virus-based commercial product >(which has never been detected as a virus by any scanner) which >operates quite well, and we are in the process of creating another >virus-based product designed to operate in LANs. Our users don't seem >to be offended by the optimization of resource utilization, automated >distribution and installation, high reliability, and small space used >by our products based on viruses, but it seems to offend the >anti-virus community that all of their overblown claims about all >viruses being bad are being undercut by benevolent viruses that are >safe and reliable. In fact, most of our viruses work on far more >systems than most virus defenses, and they don't spread where they are >not supposed to go. They are easy to control and remove, they are >compatable with every DOS based system we have seen to date, and they >have never generated any unintended side-effects. Kinda blows the >whole "all viruses are bad" thing, huh! Excuse me? Since when did viruses have to be "bad" to be a virus? Look in the FAQ...there's a sentence there refutes the "belief" that a virus has to be "bad" or "malicious" to be a virus. > NEW PRODUCT ANOUNCEMENT - BENEVOLENT VIRUSES IN LANS > AUTOMATE MUCH OF LAN MANAGEMENT - ANTI-VIRUS COMMUNITY > SHUDDERS - SCANNER PRODUCTS MUST ADAPT TO DIFFERENTIATE > BETWEEN KNOWN GOOD VIRUSES AND VARIENTS CREATED BY BAD > VIRUS WRITERS - FOR DETAILS CONTACT ASP Do you even know how a scanner works? From the above statement, I am beginning to doubt if you really do. Unless you are talking about heuristic methods, which are still in the experimental phase. And integrity-based systems let you specify which files are to be ignored and which are to be checked. - -- John Mechalas | If you think my opinions are Purdue's, then mechalas@expert.cc.purdue.edu | you vastly overestimate my importance. Purdue University Computing Center | Help put a ban on censorship :) General Consulting | #include disclaimer.h
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Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!sparky!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!cert!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!news From: mechalas@expert.cc.purdue.edu (John Mechalas) Newsgroups: comp.virus Subject: Re: FC on virus creation Message-ID: <0018.9212141513.AA07337@barnabas.cert.org> Date: 9 Dec 92 23:16:58 GMT Sender: virus-l@lehigh.edu Lines: 74 Approved: news@netnews.cc.lehigh.edu