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Thread View: comp.windows.misc
3 messages
3 total messages Started by dnk Fri, 06 Jan 1989 18:29
Stirring the UI hornets' nest
#1242
Author: dnk
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1989 18:29
54 lines
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I'm posting this on comp.windows.x, comp.cog-eng, and comp.windows.misc in
hopes of eliciting some strong opinions on User Interface, or maybe even some
hard info.  Please pardon the duplication...

On 12/30/88, roland@osf.org (Roland Stich) posted to comp.windows.x OSF's User
Environment Component letter (by John Paul, 12/29) to its membership.

Does anyone have any comments, pro or con, about that decision?  (You certainly
don't have to work for an OSF or UNIX International member to respond! :-)

Here are some controversial thoughts to start things rolling...

It appears to me that OSF chose a look & feel as close as possible to the
Presentation Manager, thus leveraging the large expected base of SW written to
that environment, and increasing the viability of UNIX in general, and the
probability that OSF/1 will be the UNIX of choice.  (Yes, I saw where they plan
to deliver their user environment component (UEC) on SysVr4 as well.)

Is this OSF acknowledgement of Presentation Manager realistic, in your opinion-
or is it a mistake because it proceeds from the assumption that future
workstation SW should resemble current PC SW rather than current workstation
SW?

What is UNIX International's current position regarding look & feel?  Are
they solidly backing Open Look, forsaking all others?  SHOULD they?

What about the OSF member HW vendors who've already lined up ISVs to write to
specific toolkits which were not selected?  Many have promised to continue to
support those look & feels as well as OSF's UEC.  How does that sit with the
ISVs?  Wouldn't they be better off writing to OSF's UEC to leverage their
development efforts to a wider market?

What proportion of UNIX International HW or SW vendors will offer or assume
OSF's UEC in addition to Open Look?  Will anyone try to support more than one
look & feel?  What UIMSs offer efficient ways to support more than one?  Will
the "typical" user mind intermixing applications with differing look & feels on
the same screen?  If they try, will there be window manager conflicts?

As long as there is no single dominant look & feel standard for UNIX, can UNIX
or X Windows succeed in the marketplace?

Is the lack of much visible debate on look & feel because A) I'm looking in the
wrong place, B) because it's premature, or C) because it's perceived as too
strategic a topic?

Is there a specific newsgroup wherein UNIX look & feel is being discussed?
(If not, I vote for comp.cog-eng)

Dan Kalikow, Prime Computer Inc.
Please disregard netaddress in header; use dnk@enx.prime.com for private EMail

(Standard disclaimer definitely applies; none of the above has anything to do
with Prime's opinions or plans.)
Re: Stirring the UI hornets' nest
#1313
Author: Peter da Silva
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1989 17:21
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In article <34500001@primerd>, dnk@primerd.prime.com writes:
> Is the lack of much visible debate on look & feel because A) I'm looking in the
> wrong place, B) because it's premature, or C) because it's perceived as too
> strategic a topic?

Because it's premature. Let's figure out a programmer interface for windowing
as simple and clean as stdio, then look-n-feel becomes a matter of recompiling
with the right library.
-- 
Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation.
Work: uunet.uu.net!ficc!peter, peter@ficc.uu.net, +1 713 274 5180.   `-_-'
Home: bigtex!texbell!sugar!peter, peter@sugar.uu.net.                 'U`
Opinions may not represent the policies of FICC or the Xenix Support group.
Re: Stirring the UI hornets' nest
#1314
Author: Peter Schachte
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1989 22:30
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In article <34500001@primerd> dnk@primerd.prime.com writes:
>On 12/30/88, roland@osf.org (Roland Stich) posted to comp.windows.x OSF's User
>Environment Component letter (by John Paul, 12/29) to its membership.
>Does anyone have any comments, pro or con, about that decision?
>
>What is UNIX International's current position regarding look & feel?  Are
>they solidly backing Open Look, forsaking all others?  SHOULD they?

NO, they shouldn't. Neither should OSF.  Look and feel is a matter of
individual taste, just like shells and editors.  Some people are pretty
passionate about vi, others feel just as strongly about emacs.  People
are bound to feel much the same way about their visual unix environment.
Trying to standardize these things is a mistake.  What should be
standardized is programmer INTERFACE, and a way to build programs that
use widgets (user interface objects) whose code does not exist within
the executable image of the application itself, but is dynamically
linked a runtime (e.g., shared libraries).  This way, different people
can choose different implementations of widgets, or even implement their
own versions of standard widgets, with whatever features they like, and
use these alternative implementations with off-the-shelf applications.

Standards can be way to improve portability and increase the market for
a product, or they can be a straitjacket that stiffle innovation and
lead to homogeneous mediocrity.  We need a way to do the former for unix
without doing the latter.  The standard looks & feels do both.

Just my opinions.

-Peter Schachte
pds@quintus.uucp
..!sun!quintus!pds
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