Thread View: comp.windows.news
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8 total messages
Started by Bill Vogel
Mon, 10 Aug 1992 05:30
apps that use news
Author: Bill Vogel
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 05:30
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 05:30
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There has been discussion in this group lately about applications that use NeWS. Our Sysmon (System Performance Monitor) product makes extensive use of NeWS. Enter soapbox mode... People who bitch and moan about how slow NeWS is, ad nauseum... just don't get the picture. NeWS is plenty fast enough for ANY type of presentation graphics, and most other types of things. The only thing I think it may have trouble with is highly computationally bound graphics. On the other hand, there is a VAST gain to be had, in the order of 10 to 1 in terms of application development time. Tweaking graphics code (that would probably have had to be written anyway if you want to support postscript printing) and simply re-downloading the code (i.e. in the repaint proc) as opposed to the recompiling and recompiling and recompiling and recompiling and then relinking and relinking ... of an Xlib based program is well worth any perceived speed penalties. People that don't see this are simply too lazy to bother to learn and understand how to program quickly and efficiently in NeWS. I'll accept a challenge from anybody who thinks they can write an Xlib graphics program faster than I can write a NeWS program. I believe I'd be finished and well on my way for a beer long before somebody writing Xlib code would even come close to being finished. End soapbox mode... Now that we have tons of NeWS code written, can somebody enlighten me as to the rumored demise of NeWS in favor of Display Postscript? Display postscript has no provisions for anything useful like the canvas extensions, events, etc.. The pointinpath and userpath stuff is hardly a replacement for NeWS canvases and events. -Bill Vogel wrv@balr.com (708) 575-8200
Re: apps that use news
Author: Frank Peters
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 22:34
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 22:34
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In article <1992Aug10.053002.16211@balr.com> wrv@balr.com (Bill Vogel) says: : People who bitch and moan about how slow NeWS is, ad nauseum... just : don't get the picture. Most people aren't complaining about how slow NeWS is per se (some may be but most aren't). The problem is that Sun has a single server (xnews) which provides both X11 and NeWS support. That server is considerably slower than the MIT pure X11 server on the same platform. Since NeWS is commonly perceived as the "extra" (most people running xnews are more interested in the X than the NeWS) it gets the blame for the slowdown. Through several layers of fuzzy this becomes "NeWS is slow". We could debate for ever the relative merits of NeWS and X and MGR and what have you. I think that its pretty obvious, though, that trying to support more than one windowing system in the same server is going to have a performance hit. -- Frank Peters - UNIX Systems Programmer - Mississippi State University Internet: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu - Phone: (601)325-7030 - FAX: (601)325-8921
Re: apps that use news
Author: Liam R. E. Quin
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 20:22
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 20:22
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wrv@balr.com (Bill Vogel) says: > People who bitch and moan about how slow NeWS is, ad nauseum... just > don't get the picture. fwp@CC.MsState.Edu (Frank Peters) writes: > [...] The problem is that Sun has a single server > (xnews) which provides both X11 and NeWS support. That server is > considerably slower than the MIT pure X11 server on the same platform. I dispute that. If you compare OpenWindows 3 with X11R4, you'll find that there's little difference, but that OpenWindows 3 is generally faster - a lot of benchmarks were posted when OW3 came out... If you're comparing OpenWindows 3 and X11R5, you'll find that X11R5 is faster, of course - it's newer. Few, if any, commercial workstation vendors have moved to X11R5 yet - and I know of several rather large companies that still ship X11R3 for various reasons. It is not at all clear to me that there is a large performance loss, as you imply, from including the NeWS support in the OpenWindows xnews server. Or the other way round, for that matter. Lee -- Liam Quin, lee@sq.com, SoftQuad, Toronto, 416 239-4801; the barefoot programmer lq-text (Unix text retrieval pacakge) mailing list: lq-text-request@sq.com latest released version: 1.10; ftp: ftp.cs.toronto.edu in directory: pub If Adultery is for Adults, is Juvenal for Juveniles?
Re: apps that use NeWS (HyperLook, SimCity)
Author: Dug Scoular
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:05
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:05
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Hi Netters, In article <1992Aug10.053002.16211@balr.com> wrv@balr.com (Bill Vogel) writes: > There has been discussion in this group lately about applications > that use NeWS. Our Sysmon (System Performance Monitor) product > makes extensive use of NeWS. > No one mentioned HyperLook or SimCity, they're good examples of what can be done with NeWS. The great thing about the HyperLook runtime is that you get a full featured PostScript Graphics Editor thrown in "for nowght". 1. Where to FTP the HyperLook runtime from. ------------------------------------------- The HyperLook look runtime system can be obtained via anonymous ftp from the following sites (the turing.com site also provides product and ordering information): turing.com (192.133.90.28) pub/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9) graphics/NeWS/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.1) computing/vendor/turing.com/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z 2. Where to FTP SimCity from. ----------------------------- Good news! The HyperLook edition of SimCity for SPARC is now available via anonymous ftp. turing.com (192.133.90.28) pub/SimCity.tar.Z ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9) vendor/dux/SimCity.tar.Z src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.1) computing/vendor/turing.com/SimCity.tar.Z > Enter soapbox mode... > > People who bitch and moan about how slow NeWS is, ad nauseum... just > don't get the picture. NeWS is plenty fast enough for ANY type of > presentation graphics, and most other types of things. The only > thing I think it may have trouble with is highly computationally > bound graphics. On the other hand, there is a VAST gain to be had, .... etc .... etc.... > > End soapbox mode... Check out how fast SimCity graphics are, they use shared memory canvases, the lava lamp that Don Hopkins put up for ftp on turing.com (CAM.tar.Z methinks) is a pretty good demo too. -- Doug Scoular "The big print giveth and the Senior Rock n Roller small print taketh away" E-mail: dug@turing.ac.uk Tel: +44 41 552 6400 Postal: The Turing Institute Ltd. Fax: +44 41 552 2985 George House North Hanover Street Glasgow G1 2AD Scotland UK. The opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of The Turing Institute Limited
Re: apps that use news
Author: Ian Kemmish
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 13:21
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 13:21
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lee@sq.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin) writes: >wrv@balr.com (Bill Vogel) says: >> People who bitch and moan about how slow NeWS is, ad nauseum... just >> don't get the picture. > >fwp@CC.MsState.Edu (Frank Peters) writes: >> [...] The problem is that Sun has a single server >> (xnews) which provides both X11 and NeWS support. That server is >> considerably slower than the MIT pure X11 server on the same platform. > > ...... > >It is not at all clear to me that there is a large performance loss, as you >imply, from including the NeWS support in the OpenWindows xnews server. > >Or the other way round, for that matter. > >Lee > Assuming you have enough workstation to go round. I have three window systems on my small IPC. First, a minimalist homebrew NeWS-only server that's pretty fast (but not as fast as 8 1/2, sigh). Second X11r4, which is OK as long as you don't try to do stuff in lots of different windows. Thirdly, xnews, which is diabolical if you want to do much more than scroll through a file:-(. I hate X11 for the reason that it is a classic `gas-guzzling' piece of software. Because of this, I'm forced to hate xnews as well, since it chews up even more resources on ever simpler tasks. Why should I have to buy more and more memory and disc just because someone somewhere isn't as bothered about the performance that the user sees as I am? -- Ian D. Kemmish Tel. +44 767 601 361 18 Durham Close uad1077@dircon.co.uk Biggleswade uknet!dircon!uad1077 Beds SG18 8HZ United Kingdom
Re: apps that use NeWS (HyperLook, SimCity)
Author: thomas kendelbacher
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:17
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:17
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In article <DUG.92Aug14160508@morvern.turing.com>, dug@morvern.turing.com (Dug Scoular) writes: |> Hi Netters, |> |> [...] |> |> 1. Where to FTP the HyperLook runtime from. |> ------------------------------------------- |> |> The HyperLook look runtime system can be obtained via anonymous ftp |> from the following sites (the turing.com site also provides product |> and ordering information): |> |> turing.com (192.133.90.28) pub/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z |> ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9) graphics/NeWS/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z |> src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.1) computing/vendor/turing.com/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z |> |> 2. Where to FTP SimCity from. |> ----------------------------- |> |> Good news! The HyperLook edition of SimCity for SPARC is now |> available via anonymous ftp. |> |> turing.com (192.133.90.28) pub/SimCity.tar.Z |> ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9) vendor/dux/SimCity.tar.Z |> src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.1) computing/vendor/turing.com/SimCity.tar.Z |> |> [...] Does anybody know how/where to get these without ftp access (i.e. from mail servers)? Greetings, Thomas Kendelbacher | email : tkendel@ernohb.uucp Robbenplate 13 | voice : +49 421 539 5492 D-2800 Bremen 66 | or : +49 421 57 04 37 Germany
ftp mail server (was "Re: apps that use NeWS (HyperLook, SimCity)")
Author: Darci L. Chapman x5930
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:15
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:15
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There's a really nice ftp mail server at ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com Send email to that address with the word "help" as the body of the message. I have used alot in the last two-three weeks to get some nice sources from different places (via the ftp connect command) and haven't had any problems with it. >>-Darci->
Re: apps that use NeWS (HyperLook, SimCity)
Author: Don Hopkins
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:16
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:16
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token@ernohb.UUCP (thomas kendelbacher) writes:
|> 1. Where to FTP the HyperLook runtime from.
|> -------------------------------------------
|>
|> The HyperLook look runtime system can be obtained via anonymous ftp
|> from the following sites (the turing.com site also provides product
|> and ordering information):
|>
|> turing.com (192.133.90.28) pub/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z
|> ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9) graphics/NeWS/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z
|> src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.1) computing/vendor/turing.com/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z
|>
|> 2. Where to FTP SimCity from.
|> -----------------------------
|>
|> Good news! The HyperLook edition of SimCity for SPARC is now
|> available via anonymous ftp.
|>
|> turing.com (192.133.90.28) pub/SimCity.tar.Z
|> ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9) vendor/dux/SimCity.tar.Z
|> src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.1) computing/vendor/turing.com/SimCity.tar.Z
|>
|> [...]
Does anybody know how/where to get these without ftp access
(i.e. from mail servers)?
You can order SimCity (which includes the HyperLook runtime) from DUX Software.
DUX Software
4906 El Camino Real
Suite 1
Los Altos, CA 94022
Phone #: 1-800-543-4999
or 1-415-967-1500
FAX #: 1-415-967-5528
-Don
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