Thread View: core.advisors
3 messages
3 total messages
Started by Frank Topping
Sat, 10 Oct 1992 11:34
K12Net is endangering our kids!
Author: Frank Topping
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 11:34
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 11:34
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I stopped by the downtown office of CDE the other day to see what comment
I might get from Bill Honig's office on the current state of international
education networking - and in particular, what their opinion might be on
the lack of professional structure of K12Net and the liabilities involved.
Coming on the heels of a national FBI conference at the Hyatt on the issues
accompanying minor children's online access it seemed pretty timely.
I'm not coming from a "wild-eyed" radical's posture when I say there is
serious cause for concern here - keeping children from dirty pictures or
prose is hardly my concern at all. ...I'm more worried about the wholly
undisciplined and seemingly unguided "free form" of the message content
for one thing. ...there's alot of praise for alcohol to the content of
the messages - has anyone here invited the folks from PrevNet to take a
look? ...lots of free contribution about <one or another> God; has that
achieved an ok from the federal level about being "in the schools" yet?
What about the unchallenged subtleties in the slurs against femininity &
sometimes race, weight etc. ...is this structured education? ...hardly.
Without agreements between responsible educator correspondents and vigorous
review of student input (we do still do that don't we?) arranged for we
are heading for certain disaster in education networking and we're culpably
negligent for problems destined to occur by even displaying K12Net now and
lending an air of respectability to it. ...culpably negligent and recklessly
exposing the California State College System to the certainty of horrendous
lawsuits if we continue "as is".
As the FBI pointed out, NAMBLA and other groups and individuals are out there
poised to spring on our kids. ...has it been that long ago that the crimes
of "Fast Eddie" etc. have been in the headlines that we've forgotten?
...or are we getting numb from the blur of all of them?
...along with the problems mentioned above K12NET _is not_ wholly educator
based. ...the reason for the phenomenal growth of K12Net in the beginning
was the openly encouraged proliferation by Jack Crawford among _any and all_
FidoNet BBSs. K12Net is not only not school based - the traffic is largely
not even handled by educators - nor is the "first interface" to the kids
alleged to be an educator. ...I'll try to cut the headers down but please
consider these messages just in to CORE off of K12Net. ...starting with the
child revealing her address and familial situation (the teacher is NOT
policing these) - to the 12 yr. old (another!) whose parents told her to
quit corresponding to someone older attempting to write to her in a supposed
"protected environment".
Al Rogers took the lead in responsible networking from California long ago
and "did it right". FredMail deserves our whole-harted support whereas
K12Net has GOT to be blocked from spreading throughout California
unless CDE has a single hand on the plug as a _minimum_. Literally, rapes
are occurring from meetings _contrived for the purpose_ across BBS land.
Honig's PAO wasn't too happy about the whole thing - I'm just trying to
help some here avoid possible embarrassment and a professional "black eye".
Thanks for your time and concern, ...there are better ways to go.
Frank Topping, Sacramento (916)455-5154
======all messages following came "in" on one day on CORE:=======
From eis.CalState.EDU!nic.csu.net!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!uunet!psgrain!puddle!f83.n3820.z1.fidonet.org!Armando.Guerrero Wed, 30 Sep 92 13:20:06 PST
Path: eis.CalState.EDU!nic.csu.net!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!uunet!psgrain!puddle!f83.n3820.z1.fidonet.org!Armando.Guerrero
Newsgroups: k12.chat.elementary
Subject: tx. I live in 135 Avenida de la Plata
Message-ID: <4827.2ACC02AB@puddle.fidonet.org>
From: Armando.Guerrero@f83.n3820.z1.fidonet.org (Armando Guerrero)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 13:20:06 PST
Sender: ufgate@puddle.fidonet.org (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3820/83 - Morningside K12 BBS, Brownsville TX
Lines: 17
dear tony scott I live in B,ville tx. I live in 135
Avenida de la plata and I will tell you what we use in
texas as money. We use quarter as 25 cents and 1 dime as 10 cents
and 1 pennie for 1 cent. I live with my mom and sister in my house
and I have a nice teacher and a nice librarian too. My teacher is nice
and my librarian is nice too. I have good friends even though it's my
first year at Morningside. Have you seen any koalas?
sincerly,
sincerly
Armando
(Not just dangerous, this is _REAL_ dangerous! -ft )
(what happened to teaching safety? ...where's the outrage from concerned)
(educators?)
Newsgroups: k12.chat.elementary
Subject: Re: penpal
Message-ID: <4828.2ACC02AC@puddle.fidonet.org>
From: Johanna.Sandoval@f2.n3820.z1.fidonet.org (Johanna Sandoval)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 15:31:30 PST
Sender: ufgate@puddle.fidonet.org (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3820/2 - The Lyceum, Brownsville TX
Lines: 13
*** Quoting April Miller to All ***
AM> Hi. My name is April.I am ten years old and in the fourth grade.
AM> I likehorses.
Hi! My name is Johanna Sandoval, and I am 11 years old. I am in the 6th
grade. I also like horses! If you have any problems, you could tell me.
If I have problems, can I tell you? Would you like to be my penpal?
Write back soon!
Johanna
(if "problems" get into a revelation of medical information it's against the
law, period. ...without parental consent. ...and you _know_ they're
going to tell all, about themselves as well as others, family and otherwise.)
Newsgroups: k12.chat.elementary
Subject: PEN PALS
Message-ID: <5101.2ACCAC59@puddle.fidonet.org>
From: Ann.Trewern@f515.n770.z3.fidonet.org (Ann Trewern)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 11:02:30 PST
Sender: ufgate@puddle.fidonet.org (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 3:770/515
Lines: 16
Dear Sara
My name is Belinda Hunsche my address is 63 flagstaff
Road. I am 7 years old and I am a standard 1 in
Room 2.My sisters are called Ranae and Hannah
Ranae is 6 she likes cats and dogs. Hannah is 2
years old she is a rascal. my parents are called
Ingrid and Bernie.
To sara my name is michelle.my sisters name is stephanie. My Mum and Dads
names are Lyall and Colleen.I have lots of friends their names are
Jenna,Belinda,Hannah,Lydia,Angela and Hayley. I am 7 years old I live on
half way bush road dunedin.
Newsgroups: k12.chat.junior
Subject: SORRY
Message-ID: <4845.2ACC02C4@puddle.fidonet.org>
From: Sarah.Hutchings@f734.n153.z1.fidonet.org (Sarah Hutchings)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 17:18:01 PST
Sender: ufgate@puddle.fidonet.org (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:153/734 - ED-NET 9600, Vancouver BC
Lines: 11
hi cliff it's sarah remember me. I'm sorry but my prents don't want me
talking to you or being your pen pal because your to old for me i'm only 12
i hope you know.Sorry
from sarah
Newsgroups: k12.chat.senior
Subject: hi
Message-ID: <5125.2ACCAC94@puddle.fidonet.org>
From: Gavin.Jackson@p0.f454.n711.z3.fidonet.org (Gavin Jackson)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 00:44:08 PST
Sender: ufgate@puddle.fidonet.org (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 3:711/454.0 - The Bush Telegraph, Westleigh NSW
Lines: 27
Hi Donald,
-=> Quoting Donald Evans to All <=-
DE> Hi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, are you going to tell me about yourself ?? Im 17, and like RHCP, Metallica,
Nirvana, Queen, Ugly Kid Joe, Tom Cochrane and Richard Marx, and I LOVE
BBS'ing!!
Catchyal8r,
Gavin
... Programmers get overlaid! (the GENERIC software kit supplied for K12Net
use contains random lines of this nature;
the kids don't even know their message will
sit above _educator supplied_ trash. -ft)
Newsgroups: k12.chat.senior
Subject: Hello, all
Message-ID: <4866.2ACC02E2@puddle.fidonet.org>
From: Brian.Talma@f615.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Talma)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 18:17:00 PST
Sender: ufgate@puddle.fidonet.org (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/615 - Scolasticom, Palmyra NY
Lines: 5
Where are you going to college? I'm at FLCC
Newsgroups: k12.chat.senior
Subject: .
Message-ID: <4872.2ACC02EB@puddle.fidonet.org>
From: Chris.Foote@f49.n134.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Foote)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 11:41:04 PST
Sender: ufgate@puddle.fidonet.org (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:134/49 - The Student Exchang, Calgary Alta
Lines: 27
BE>Hi Chris. If you can find a bar with no bouncers in this
BE>town, be my guest. I know a lot 15-17 year olds who would
BE>be extremely happy. Well, I gotta go. Is there a lot of
BE>night-life in calgary?
BE>Boldly going where no one has gone before...
BE>Bren
It's cue. Unless you can get into a bar, your screwed, unless there's a
party. I've been doing the party thing latley. I don't like the chics
that go to bars (party girls). I go to the Parties, there's usualy more
people at a good bush party than any bar in town, and there's always
someone with a few thousand watts in there car for tunes. The only
problem is when the police bust up the parties.
Last weekend my friend just about put in "Cop Killer" just when the police
showed up. Next time they show, we'll just stay because my friend said
that that would work. We'll have to see. I imagine that They'll just
take as many as they can.
ttyl..
___
X WinQwk 2.0 #0 X Unregistered Evaluation Copy
Newsgroups: k12.chat.senior
Subject: Hello
Message-ID: <4981.2ACC1E10@puddle.fidonet.org>
From: Brady.R..Ferguson@f470.n161.z1.fidonet.org (Brady R. Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 11:38:01 PST
Sender: ufgate@puddle.fidonet.org (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:161/470 - IISME-NET, Berkeley CA
Lines: 12
Julie
==== some removed ====
Anyway, my parents are leaving for Hawaii the end of the month.
for a week. They will be gone all during spirit week. I have to do a
party on Friday night with Manuel I.(djing).
Not much more to say.
Au Revior,
Brady
Ps-- Ms. Noir wants to talk to me. She is such a female dog!!
-BF
==============================================================
I'm not sure how Ms. Noir would feel - but in a day when papers are stopped
when we leave the house on vacation I doubt the parents need the movements of
the family made "world news".
How 'bout it Bob? ...is SLHS getting any state money?
When parents don't even _know_ the dangers yet can we in good conscience
say we're serving the public interest well here?
Really?
If you made it this far thanks - and take a well deserved break!
Frank Topping, Sacramento (916)455-5154
Re: K12Net is endangering our kids!
Author: Jason W Solinsky
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:28
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:28
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Was that a joke? Why stop with taking away computers, why don't we prevent our children from washing TV. Or better yet take away phones. In fact, I think we should lock them up in a prison with huge electrical fences surrounding it. They can go to school there and once a month their parents can visit. Jason W. Solinsky
Re: K12Net is endangering our kids!
Author: Bob Shayler
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:23
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:23
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I really would prefer to ignore messages like Frank Topping's recent long
diatribe against K12net. However, Frank has cited a message one of my
students posted on the K12net BBS I sysop, so I feel must reply. However,
my reply will be considerably shorter and more direct than the original
message.
First, the message served a very useful purpose to my students, all of
whom must learn how to use computer networks (hands-on with active
accounts) this year. The message Frank cited plus several others serve as
excellent examples of "how to" and "how not to" write messages when one
wishes to receive good responses and establish on-line conversations. My
classes have discussed these examples and have created their own set of
"rules" for on-line etiquette. As usual, their self-established rules are
even more conservative than the etiquette list posted widely and published
in ISTE's "T.I.E. News" by Yvonne Andres (FrEdMail) and my own. Teachers
will recognize the value inherent in having students discover and generate
their own rules of behavior. But that is pedagogy and Ed Philosophy which
will probably not hit any marks in this thread. Suffice it to say, my
students are as unhappy with "bad" messages as anyone else here and they
figured it all out themselves!
Second, one would hope that if a reader of a message is concerned with the
content of that message, the reader would make some minimal effort to
contact the author of the message or the operator of the system of origin.
Frank has my home and work and K12net phone numbers and usmail addresses,
but he did not contact me. He knows me from a couple of years ago when he
helped me begin with K12net! I have requested of him in email a copy of
the message he posted here as a courtesy but he has not sent a copy to me.
Third, Frank does not know anything about the education program at my
school or the use of computer telecommunications in my classes. He does
not know the BBS software we use. He has never, under his own name at
least, signed onto that system. He does not know anything about the
students involved or anything about any of the other people in the
messages he re-posted. To my knowledge, he has never been a certificated
K12 teacher nor has he been in any classroom environment, in my district
at least. Yet, he has strong opinions, his right, which he expresses in
an intimidating fashion. I hope he will come to understand that the re-
posting of student messages with personal information such as addresses (a
bad practice) from K12net (a relatively controlled environment) to
newsgroups such as core.advisors and misc.education (a relatively
uncontrolled environment) does in a big way exactly what he was
complaining about to begin with.
Finally, despite his recent message, I invite Frank to become a productive
(non-flaming) part of a discussion about educational uses of networks.
There is a lot of potential here and a lot of work to be done.
Unfortunately, the only solid consequences of his message are the probable
cutting of the K12net chat areas from newsgroups and a possible re-
thinking of gatewaying FrEdMail student messages as well.
This will be my only reply here to Frank's message. Those of us who are
professionally trying to incorporate modern technologies into curricula in
schools just don't have the time to engage ourselves in lengthy on-line
fire fights. If Frank wants to be constructive, he knows multiple ways to
contact me.
-Bob Shayler-
for reference: sysop of several FrEdMail BBSes for five years
sysop of one K12net BBS for two years
moderator of K12net's Sr_Chat echo
member of FrEdMail Board of Directors
member of Iris Board of Directors
SLUSD Mentor teacher (ed tech)
and not least --- active teacher for the past 27 years
in southern and northern California and New York
and father of two children who use this technology
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