🚀 go-pugleaf

Yeah, where is all the COMPLETE Sysex stuff at, an' all.?

Excellent, Roland.

minibrat

Roland Fr�hlich <Roland.Froehlich@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3B5EA2C2.B6528460@t-online.de...
> Dear NTX,
> thanks for your interest in this topic.
> Indeed 2500 years after Pythagoras the human ear & brain is still amuzed
to hear
> a major chord in the perfect ratios 5:4 and 3:2. Nothing has changed in
this time in our brain.
> If you hear a professional good live orchestra with strings and brass and
woodwinds, then this performance is totally normal and
> style independant. This comes from every CD or from radio music as you can
hear every time a live performance is recorded, and a
> good synth can also play in Pure Tuning.
>
> But if you play the same piece with 32 or 64 voices on your soundcard,
what a sound disturbance!
> Play a loud full string chord in the high frequency range , e.g.
Barber,Adagio, Bars 50 ff. What are you hearing?
> Beats with very regular slow frequeny envelopes, artificial computerized
sound, nothing LIVE feeling.
> This beating comes from the Equal Temperament on your soundcard, and you
have no chance to change this, or?
>
> In an orchestra the only instruments playing in Equal Temperament are
Piano,Cembalo,Zither and similiars (percussive, so beats can
> not develope to stationarity) and Organ (not percussive, but this is a own
very long thread through the milleniums- Kirnberger
> etc.), but never Horns,Violons,Clarinets and all the many many others
great sounding instruments.
>
> One can design intelligent algorithms (e.g. the patented Hermode Tuning)
to play almost everytime in Pure Tuning as every
> professional performer it does automaticly after trained for ensemble
playing, but your soundcard today can this not perform?
> Ridiculous and annoying!
> I think the computer and his peripherals (say soundcards) has the
capability and the right to do things what humans request from
> him.
> The MMA (Midi Manufacturer Assoc.) has defined for this purpose the
Real-Time-Sysex Command "Octave Scale Tuning" in the year 1999.
> It has the mostly compact as possible form for doing exactly this job,
never comparable with the restricted features of Pitchbend
> (too many transfer, too less channels and instruments for a full polyphony
orchestra).
> But the developers of Hi-End soundcards (as Creative claims) seems not to
be aware of a so long outstanding feature.
>
> Can it be that a SB manager read this thread and trigger as soon as
possible a skilled programmer ?
> I have solved this for me (in a programmable DSP based MIDI expander - not
a PC-soundcard)  in exactly one half labor day and it
> works fine.
> Maybe the Soundblasters with the EMU 10K chip are not programmable?
> But I guess the tuning is generated in the drivers VXD, and so it could be
soon and easely an update possible.
>
> And if this posting is read by a responsible Creative product manager:
> Imagine the fantastic market advantage for the ten-thousands of music
schools wordlwide, if you can support
> an TRUE orchestral accompaniment for the student player, also suitable for
the home exercises.
> As if I can see, no competitor has this feature until now integrated.
> It gives other solutions (Yamaha,Roland), but they are vendor specific -
not soundcard independant- at not so compact and
> time/coding efficient as the MMA official methods.
>
> The good thing with Creative products today is their open platform to
building new instruments via Soundfonts, this is a very wise
> and nice feature, let it stay for the present and future of creativity by
Creatives/EMU mens.
> I switched from the great but not more supported Pinnacle Studio card to
SB, in the hope, that things are evolved now,
> but this seems not to be the case in the year 2001, perhaps 2002 ?
>
> But the question leaves:
> Where is the site for COMPLETE and DETAILED exhaustiv Sysex Spec for all
Creative products ?
> E.g. Master Tuning, Master Volume, Tuning tables etc. etc.
> Is this not implemented in no one product?
> I have only found selected NRPNs and the Chorus/Reverb program selection,
but never the full sysex roadmap.
>
> As a member of MMA CreativeLabs has the duty to document ALL the
implemented Sysex specs,
> this would be nothing more then fair against all the programmers worldwide
using their products.
> This information seems missing in all their official known websites.
>
> Best regards,
> Roland.
>
>
> NTX schrieb:
>
> > Roland,
> >
> > I think the APS drivers predate the MIDI spec that you are referring to.
> > (Too bad)  I have heard of people adjusting soundfonts to acheive scales
> > outside of equal temperment (most time consuming and not flexible) and
the
> > other suggestion has been to use pitch bends (pain in the...)
> >
> > I am not sure that there is an easy fix for what you are looking for.
To my
> > knowledge it is rare for even soft synths to have such a feature ( I
think
> > VaZ Modular has a 'scale tuning' function but other than that I don't
know
> > of any.)   I am not that familiar with some of the newer software
samplers
> > (Gigasampler and Unity) but I would hope that they may be more capable
in
> > this area.
> >
> > I am most curious how you intend to apply Octave Scale Tuning and what
style
> > (or tradition) of music you are working with.
> >
> > NTX
> >
> > "Roland Fr�hlich" <Roland.Froehlich@t-online.de> wrote in message
> > news:3B5D0E81.7D4025B0@t-online.de...
> > > Eric,
> > > thank for your answer. But Pitchbend or NRPNs are not applicable for
my
> > > applications.
> > > There are to less channels or to many bytes.
> > > Because this the MMA has introduced the "Sysex Real-Time Octave Scale
> > Tuning"
> > > message
> > > in the year 1999.
> > >
> > > Eric Vela schrieb:
> > >
> > > > Just a thought... Are you talking about MIDI pitch bend/wheel
> > controller? If
> > > > so, that's not a sysex. You can set the amount the wheel controller
will
> > > > bend the pitch with MIDI RPN 0. (I never remember the math correctly
so
> > I
> > > > always have to keep guessing at formulas to set it. I believe it has
a
> > > > maximum range of +/- 2 octaves but don't quote me on it. I do know
it is
> > an
> > > > instant change in pitch without any portamento -- meaning unlike the
> > fast
> > > > but audible gliss effect you get with Microsoft's software synth in
> > Windows
> > > > 2000.)
> > > >
> > > > As for NPRNs or sysex, I'm sorry I can't say. There may be NPRNs,
but I
> > have
> > > > not been able to find any sysex. I tend to use transpose features
for
> > > > one-time coarse tuning (I know it's different than modifying the
> > instrument
> > > > settings) and wide pitch wheel ranges to circumvent phrasing issues
with
> > > > certain instruments.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck
> > > > Eric.
> > > > "Roland Fr�hlich" <Roland.Froehlich@t-online.de> wrote in message
> > > > news:3B5BF9B0.D83A55EC@t-online.de...
> > > > Where is the official place to obtain from EMU/Creative the COMPLETE
> > > > Sysex implementation chart ?
> > > > I have nothing found in the Web.
> > > > If you are working with Yamaha products, there a tons of detailed
> > > > information,
> > > > but what happens with Creative Labs?
> > > >
> > > > Especially interested in : Real-Time Octave Scale Tuning.
> > > > Is this implemented today in any activ product? (official MIDI spec
is
> > > > from 1999!).
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Roland.
> > >
>