🚀 go-pugleaf

thomassm@ucsub.Colorado.EDU (Elusis) writes:

>In article <nelsoni.828398540@nag.cs.colorado.edu>,
>Ian S. Nelson <nelsoni@cs.colorado.edu> wrote:
>>thomassm@ucsub.Colorado.EDU (Elusis) writes:
>>>Boulder, Denver, Aspen, Leadville, and one other city.
>>>I imagine that if you were living with a threat of baseless firing or 
>>>eviction because of who you spend your free time with, you might find 
>>>that your "perspective" was very much different.
>>>It's kind of a big deal to those who are actually affected by the threat 
>>>that this thing will get a stamp of approval.
>>
>>I think I would find my perspective a little different if I was in
>>that situation.  but anyways I must ask the question: why would you or
>>me or anybody want to work or live somewhere where they were
>>prejudiced against me?  I think I'd do everything in my power to avoid
>>that situation regardless of whether they could legally fire or evict

>So we should flee a lovely, productive state, including local communities 
>that are actually welcoming, because of bigots?  Shall we keep running 
>ahead of the tidal wave of homophobia until we've no where left to run 
>to?  Thanks, but we should have the right to live and work where we 
>please, the same as anyone else.

Flee the state?  I said I'd do what I could to avoid working for a bigot. 
Does that require laws?  If you are in a community that is welcoming to you
then I don't really see how you would be hurt by amendment 2 to begin with.
It would just give you one more complaint to file when you get fired regardless
of whether or not you deserve it.  We've had laws that prevent prejudice 
against gender and color for a long time and I don't think you'll have trouble
finding somebody who claims to be the victim of bigotry because of their 
gender or color.  

>>me.  If your boss has something against your sexual orientation and
>>wants you fired because of it then don't you think you'll get pinched
>>the first time you make a mistake?  That's office politics: if they
>>don't like you then don't plan on staying.  Every job I've ever worked
>>had under the table policies like that; the guy nobody likes always
>>ends up doing some crap work and he might get moved to a different
>>part of the company if he doesn't do it right.  I am fortunate enough
>>to say that I don't think it was ever because of sexual preference or
>>race or anything like that; they were usually jerks...

>Homophobia isn't "office politics" any more than racism, sexual 
>harassment, or any other civil rights violation.  There's personal 
>friction and then there's institutionalized bigotry.  

I didn't say that it was.  My point was that we all make mistakes and 
accumulate mistakes at our jobs.  When the boss doesn't like you the mistakes
you make seem to count a little more.  It doesn't matter why he doesn't like
you.  Now if you are a minority of some type or a woman you kind of have the
opertunity to say that you're a victim.  Is that the case though?  There isn't
any legal protection for jerks and they get screwed in that way all the time.

>It's better to keep a job that's interesting, well-paying, and 
>conveniently located, and see your superior moved to another division or 
>fired for breaking civil rights laws.  It's the same right someone has if 
>their race is an issue, or their sex, or their disability, or their age, 
>or their religion, or their ethnicity.

Yes and no.  Again I want to stress that I'm not in that situation and I can't
yet relate to it; I don't intend to be offensive. 
I think you should not be judged on your race or sexual orientation but I don't
think that a law will change that.  Moreover how do you enforce that law with
out a quota or something.   Do you ask your employees if they are gay?
What if they lie on the application? Is it my business knowing?  Is it my 
business to know the personal feelings of my managers towards homosexuals?
A big problem with a law like that is that you can't tell if somebody is 
a homosexual.  You can tell right off if somebody is black or if they are 
disabled.  In the event that a homosexual person is dismissed how do you 
explain if it was because of bigotry or because they made one too many
mistakes?  Take your boss to court every time you get fired?   If you have 
a legel protection then isn't it the right of everybody else to know that?

It would seem to be the smart thing in my opinion to start working for a 
company while you're in the closet and then the moment my job started looking
jeopardized to come out.  If you are laid off you have instant recourse.