Article View: cu.slug
Article #415Re: Lispm and Docex
From: Luca Pisati
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:00
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:00
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Hi Peter
A while ago on the LispOS mailing list (mailto:lispos@math.gatech.edu)
we had a similar discussion. At the time I guess there was som (C) issues.
I attach here the resulting thread.
Peter Paine wrote:
>
> I have been asked a number of general questions recently by people new to
> Lispms, Symbolics and Genera. Not knowing the state of the trade which was
> Symbolics (hardware support, sales or software), it occures to me that the
> community of Symbolics users who communicate (presumably chiefly SLUG
> participants) might be well served were we to pool resources wherever
> viable.
>
> Immediately I wondered if there was any possibility of hosting the full
> Docex on the W3. It would help many people learn about Symbolics and Lisp.
> Although I have no clue as to the IPR, copyright or other issues, nor do I
> have the Web resources etc. I am game to contribute where I am able. I
> would hope that if any Symbolics trading entities do exist, this would be
> seen as being in their interest (if only to keep the candle guttering for
> the Lispm, or perhaps as a living museum pending it's rebirth in a socially
> acceptable form). Also, I wonder if there are any Concordia wizards out
> there who know all about parsing Docex format to HTML.
I believe that, given a running Concordia, it should be possible to regenerate
the Doc in a format that could then be moved to HTML. Another possibility
would be to go from Postcript to PDF (of course this will not generate any
link).
> I wonder what is the feasability of setting up a Symbolics machine as a
> CL-HTTP server for the world. If anyone from BT is listening, I am happy
> to donate the hardware, support, power, etc. but I cannot afford the Net
> access.
If such a thing should be done, I think it would be better to move the doc
to another format, instead than serving through CL-HTTP on Symbolics hardware.
--
Luca Pisati
Manager of Graphics Software Voice: (310) 577-0518
Nichimen Graphics Fax: (310) 577-0577
12555 W. Jefferson #285 EMail: mailto:pisati@nichimen.com
Los Angeles, CA 90066 Web: http://www.nichimen.com
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Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:10 -0400
Subject: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
To: pisati@nichimen.com, joswig@lavielle.com
Cc: lispos@math.gatech.edu
In-Reply-To: <336781C2.3B54@nichimen.com>
Message-Id: <19970504021046.8.RETI@VESUVIUS-2.AI.MIT.EDU>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:30 EDT
From: Luca Pisati <pisati@nichimen.com>
Rainer Joswig wrote:
>
> At 21:16 Uhr +0000 28.4.1997, Alaric B. Williams wrote:
> >On 28 Apr 97 at 0:16, lispos@math.gatech.edu wrote:
> >
> >> I would appreciate affordable docs about Genera and LispMachine OSes,
> >> or even hardware/software to test drive, as, like most computists,
> >> I could never get my *own* experience on them,
> >> but by incidental testimony, indirect deductions, and fertile imagination.
> >> Direct knowledge would be great!
> >
> >Say, Rainer Joswig's page talked about them a bit, I remember (and he himself
> >has a few, so you can ask!), I can't remember his URL, but I think he's
> >on this *VERY* list, so if he notices this he'll post his URL,
>
> see some Lisp stuff at http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig/lisp.html
>
> some bits:
>
> For some ideas about what a Symbolics is, one could also
> ask Kalman Reti. Sure also Scott McKay and David Gadbois. ;-)
> They know much more than I ever will (I'm only a user.).
>
> A nice thing to have would be a "Document Examiner to HTML"
> converter. You would put >10000 pages Lisp machine documentation
> online.
Does anybody in this list still works at Symbolics ?
Yes.
Could the Genera doc be made available in HTML or PDF format
through the Web ?
It's been on my list of things to do. There was a rumor that someone in Germany
had actually done some working to get the document examiner to output to html,
but both John Mallery and my attempts to contact the revelant party never received
any answer.
(Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
I do have all the books, of course, and I still use them as
a reference of a great technical documentation.
> Get the "Symbolics Technical Summary" from 1985. Other
> old Lispm Docs would be fine, too. Some universities
> or research companies may have old copies for free.
> Get a KEE manual.
>
> Also, if you find it you may want a copy of "Lisp Lore:
> A Guide to Programming the Lisp Machine", Second Edition, Hank
> Bromley and Richard Lamson, 1987, sigh, ISBN 0-89838-228-9.
I saw it around in some bookshop recently (!)
> The Lisp Bibliography from Herbert Stoyan lists tons of papers
> concerned with Lisp and its implementation.
>
> I haven't heard any specifics lately, but there may be a
> Lisp Users and Vendors Conference this year in Washington, DC.
> We should have some sessions and exchange some ideas there.
>
> The Association of Lisp Users (ALU) is preparing a new
> web site. If someone would take up the task to
> collect the information about the LispOS topic, it sure
> would find a good home at the ALU site.
>
> Rainer Joswig, Lavielle EDV Systemberatung GmbH & Co, Lotharstrasse 2b, D22041
> Hamburg, Tel: +49 40 658088, Fax: +49 40 65808-202,
> Email: joswig@lavielle.com , WWW: http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig/
--
Luca Pisati Voice: (310) 577-0518
Nichimen Graphics Fax: (310) 577-0577
12555 W. Jefferson #285 EMail: pisati@nichimen.com
Los Angeles, CA 90066 Web: http://www.nichimen.com
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From: reti@wilson.ai.mit.edu
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:10 -0400
Subject: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
To: pisati@nichimen.com, joswig@lavielle.com
Cc: lispos@math.gatech.edu
In-Reply-To: <336781C2.3B54@nichimen.com>
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:30 EDT
From: Luca Pisati <pisati@nichimen.com>
Rainer Joswig wrote:
>
> At 21:16 Uhr +0000 28.4.1997, Alaric B. Williams wrote:
> >On 28 Apr 97 at 0:16, lispos@math.gatech.edu wrote:
> >
> >> I would appreciate affordable docs about Genera and LispMachine OSes,
> >> or even hardware/software to test drive, as, like most computists,
> >> I could never get my *own* experience on them,
> >> but by incidental testimony, indirect deductions, and fertile imagination.
> >> Direct knowledge would be great!
> >
> >Say, Rainer Joswig's page talked about them a bit, I remember (and he himself
> >has a few, so you can ask!), I can't remember his URL, but I think he's
> >on this *VERY* list, so if he notices this he'll post his URL,
>
> see some Lisp stuff at http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig/lisp.html
>
> some bits:
>
> For some ideas about what a Symbolics is, one could also
> ask Kalman Reti. Sure also Scott McKay and David Gadbois. ;-)
> They know much more than I ever will (I'm only a user.).
>
> A nice thing to have would be a "Document Examiner to HTML"
> converter. You would put >10000 pages Lisp machine documentation
> online.
Does anybody in this list still works at Symbolics ?
Yes.
Could the Genera doc be made available in HTML or PDF format
through the Web ?
It's been on my list of things to do. There was a rumor that someone in Germany
had actually done some working to get the document examiner to output to html,
but both John Mallery and my attempts to contact the revelant party never received
any answer.
(Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
I do have all the books, of course, and I still use them as
a reference of a great technical documentation.
> Get the "Symbolics Technical Summary" from 1985. Other
> old Lispm Docs would be fine, too. Some universities
> or research companies may have old copies for free.
> Get a KEE manual.
>
> Also, if you find it you may want a copy of "Lisp Lore:
> A Guide to Programming the Lisp Machine", Second Edition, Hank
> Bromley and Richard Lamson, 1987, sigh, ISBN 0-89838-228-9.
I saw it around in some bookshop recently (!)
> The Lisp Bibliography from Herbert Stoyan lists tons of papers
> concerned with Lisp and its implementation.
>
> I haven't heard any specifics lately, but there may be a
> Lisp Users and Vendors Conference this year in Washington, DC.
> We should have some sessions and exchange some ideas there.
>
> The Association of Lisp Users (ALU) is preparing a new
> web site. If someone would take up the task to
> collect the information about the LispOS topic, it sure
> would find a good home at the ALU site.
>
> Rainer Joswig, Lavielle EDV Systemberatung GmbH & Co, Lotharstrasse 2b, D22041
> Hamburg, Tel: +49 40 658088, Fax: +49 40 65808-202,
> Email: joswig@lavielle.com , WWW: http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig/
--
Luca Pisati Voice: (310) 577-0518
Nichimen Graphics Fax: (310) 577-0577
12555 W. Jefferson #285 EMail: pisati@nichimen.com
Los Angeles, CA 90066 Web: http://www.nichimen.com
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Date: 4 May 97 18:06:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
From: "Luca Pisati" <pisati@nichimen.com>
To: reti@wilson.ai.mit.edu, joswig@lavielle.com
Cc: lispos@math.gatech.edu
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:30 EDT
From: Luca Pisati <pisati@nichimen.com>
> A nice thing to have would be a "Document Examiner to HTML"
> converter. You would put >10000 pages Lisp machine documentation
> online.
Does anybody in this list still works at Symbolics ?
Yes.
Do you mean: Yes, I work at Symbolics, and yes we could
authorize the Web publication of LispM documentation ?
Could the Genera doc be made available in HTML or PDF format
through the Web ?
It's been on my list of things to do. There was a rumor that someone in
Germany had actually done some working to get the document examiner
to output to html, but both John Mallery and my attempts to contact
the revelant party never received
any answer.
Well, I work at what was Symbolics Graphics Division (and now
is Nichimen Graphics). So I do have all the equipment for trying
to do that. If I reach some goal, could the doc be made publicly
available ?
(Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
Again, PDF from Postcript, even without Hyperlinks, could
be a first step to make a lot of people on this list know
what LispM were all about.
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To: "Luca Pisati" <pisati@nichimen.com>
Cc: reti@wilson.ai.mit.edu, joswig@lavielle.com, lispos@math.gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
References: <AF9282FE-236A9@204.30.73.114>
From: Alexey Goldin <goldin@spot.uchicago.edu>
Date: 04 May 1997 20:54:01 -0500
In-Reply-To: "Luca Pisati"'s message of 4 May 97 18:06:05 -0700
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"Luca Pisati" <pisati@nichimen.com> writes:
>
> (Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
> postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
>
> Again, PDF from Postcript, even without Hyperlinks, could
> be a first step to make a lot of people on this list know
> what LispM were all about.
Please do it just PostScript but do not strip page numbers. Thanks.
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To: "Luca Pisati" <pisati@nichimen.com>
Cc: reti@wilson.ai.mit.edu, joswig@lavielle.com, lispos@math.gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
References: <AF9282FE-236A9@204.30.73.114>
From: Alexey Goldin <goldin@spot.uchicago.edu>
Date: 04 May 1997 20:54:01 -0500
In-Reply-To: "Luca Pisati"'s message of 4 May 97 18:06:05 -0700
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"Luca Pisati" <pisati@nichimen.com> writes:
>
> (Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
> postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
>
> Again, PDF from Postcript, even without Hyperlinks, could
> be a first step to make a lot of people on this list know
> what LispM were all about.
Please do it just PostScript but do not strip page numbers. Thanks.
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Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:31:44 +0100
To: reti@wilson.ai.mit.edu
From: bambi@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Stefan Bamberger)
Subject: Re: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
Cc: pisati@nichimen.com, joswig@lavielle.com, lispos@math.gatech.edu
At 22:10 Uhr 03.05.1997, reti@wilson.ai.mit.edu wrote:
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:30 EDT
> From: Luca Pisati <pisati@nichimen.com>
>
> Rainer Joswig wrote:
> >
> > At 21:16 Uhr +0000 28.4.1997, Alaric B. Williams wrote:
[snip]
> > converter. You would put >10000 pages Lisp machine documentation
> > online.
>
> Does anybody in this list still works at Symbolics ?
>
>Yes.
>
> Could the Genera doc be made available in HTML or PDF format
> through the Web ?
>
>It's been on my list of things to do. There was a rumor that someone in Germany
>had actually done some working to get the document examiner to output to html,
>but both John Mallery and my attempts to contact the revelant party never
>received
>any answer.
>
> (Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
> postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
>
[snip]
> > Rainer Joswig, Lavielle EDV Systemberatung GmbH & Co, Lotharstrasse
>2b, D22041
> > Hamburg, Tel: +49 40 658088, Fax: +49 40 65808-202,
> > Email: joswig@lavielle.com , WWW: http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig/
>
> --
> Luca Pisati Voice: (310) 577-0518
> Nichimen Graphics Fax: (310) 577-0577
> 12555 W. Jefferson #285 EMail: pisati@nichimen.com
> Los Angeles, CA 90066 Web: http://www.nichimen.com
Hi,
in a term project at our university a format independent text tool was
developped. In the meanwhile, one of those students developed a Lisp code
documentation tool on top of it.
Input is a start folder,
output is the documentation of all the functions, macros, classes,
methods,..., external, internal, ... and all documentations of them
provided by documentation strings (so far no comments).
Also alphabetical index, class trees and so on are created as separate
appendices.
Output formats being supported so far are HTML, TEX and RTF.
For HTML you get a real bunch of HTML-files you can look at with you
favourite browser.
The tool is walking recursively through all files in all folders below the
start folder (you can exclude folders from being parsed) and anylyzes them.
Actually, the transformation algorithm from the meta language to the chosen
target format is something dump (Tex and RTF looks exactly like the HTML
layout) - there are no real 'device drivers'.
It is tested in MCL, ACL/W and SGI (Stefan Landvogt, do you mind sending us
the SGI patches??).
For an example how the generated documentation looks like, see the
following link:
http://ki-server.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/HTMLs/ls6-info/software/lispdoc
u/index.html
It's the documentation of the documentation tool :))
Feel free for any comments or suggestions.
It's not very fast, but good documentation needn't be changed so often ....
- stefan
______________________________________________________________________________
Stefan K. Bamberger email: bambi@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
Lehrstuhl fuer K"unstliche Intelligenz fax : ++49 931 7056120
Allesgrundweg 12, 97218 Gerbrunn voice : ++49 931 7056118
Universit"at W"urzburg, Germany
______________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:31:44 +0100
To: reti@wilson.ai.mit.edu
From: bambi@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Stefan Bamberger)
Subject: Re: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
Cc: pisati@nichimen.com, joswig@lavielle.com, lispos@math.gatech.edu
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At 22:10 Uhr 03.05.1997, reti@wilson.ai.mit.edu wrote:
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:30 EDT
> From: Luca Pisati <pisati@nichimen.com>
>
> Rainer Joswig wrote:
> >
> > At 21:16 Uhr +0000 28.4.1997, Alaric B. Williams wrote:
[snip]
> > converter. You would put >10000 pages Lisp machine documentation
> > online.
>
> Does anybody in this list still works at Symbolics ?
>
>Yes.
>
> Could the Genera doc be made available in HTML or PDF format
> through the Web ?
>
>It's been on my list of things to do. There was a rumor that someone in Germany
>had actually done some working to get the document examiner to output to html,
>but both John Mallery and my attempts to contact the revelant party never
>received
>any answer.
>
> (Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
> postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
>
[snip]
> > Rainer Joswig, Lavielle EDV Systemberatung GmbH & Co, Lotharstrasse
>2b, D22041
> > Hamburg, Tel: +49 40 658088, Fax: +49 40 65808-202,
> > Email: joswig@lavielle.com , WWW: http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig/
>
> --
> Luca Pisati Voice: (310) 577-0518
> Nichimen Graphics Fax: (310) 577-0577
> 12555 W. Jefferson #285 EMail: pisati@nichimen.com
> Los Angeles, CA 90066 Web: http://www.nichimen.com
Hi,
in a term project at our university a format independent text tool was
developped. In the meanwhile, one of those students developed a Lisp code
documentation tool on top of it.
Input is a start folder,
output is the documentation of all the functions, macros, classes,
methods,..., external, internal, ... and all documentations of them
provided by documentation strings (so far no comments).
Also alphabetical index, class trees and so on are created as separate
appendices.
Output formats being supported so far are HTML, TEX and RTF.
For HTML you get a real bunch of HTML-files you can look at with you
favourite browser.
The tool is walking recursively through all files in all folders below the
start folder (you can exclude folders from being parsed) and anylyzes them.
Actually, the transformation algorithm from the meta language to the chosen
target format is something dump (Tex and RTF looks exactly like the HTML
layout) - there are no real 'device drivers'.
It is tested in MCL, ACL/W and SGI (Stefan Landvogt, do you mind sending us
the SGI patches??).
For an example how the generated documentation looks like, see the
following link:
http://ki-server.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/HTMLs/ls6-info/software/lispdoc
u/index.html
It's the documentation of the documentation tool :))
Feel free for any comments or suggestions.
It's not very fast, but good documentation needn't be changed so often ....
- stefan
______________________________________________________________________________
Stefan K. Bamberger email: bambi@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
Lehrstuhl fuer K"unstliche Intelligenz fax : ++49 931 7056120
Allesgrundweg 12, 97218 Gerbrunn voice : ++49 931 7056118
Universit"at W"urzburg, Germany
______________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:40 -0400
From: Kalman Reti <reti@RIVERSIDE.SCRC.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Re: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
To: pisati@nichimen.com
Cc: reti@WILSON.AI.MIT.EDU, joswig@lavielle.com, lispos@math.gatech.edu
In-Reply-To: <AF9282FE-236A9@204.30.73.114>
Message-Id: <19970508204024.4.RETI@BETA-BLOCKER.SCRC.Symbolics.COM>
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:06 EDT
From: "Luca Pisati" <pisati@nichimen.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:30 EDT
From: Luca Pisati <pisati@nichimen.com>
> A nice thing to have would be a "Document Examiner to HTML"
> converter. You would put >10000 pages Lisp machine documentation
> online.
Does anybody in this list still works at Symbolics ?
Yes.
Do you mean: Yes, I work at Symbolics,
Yes, I work at Symbolics.
and yes we could
authorize the Web publication of LispM documentation ?
Almost. I've talked about publishing the documentation on the Web to my
management, and thought some about what it would take to do it, but haven't
yet been given a go-ahead to actually do it.
Could the Genera doc be made available in HTML or PDF format
through the Web ?
It's been on my list of things to do. There was a rumor that someone in
Germany had actually done some working to get the document examiner
to output to html, but both John Mallery and my attempts to contact
the revelant party never received
any answer.
Well, I work at what was Symbolics Graphics Division (and now
is Nichimen Graphics). So I do have all the equipment for trying
to do that. If I reach some goal, could the doc be made publicly
available ?
I think so, but I'll have to check with management to be certain. If I were
to do the project, I'd use John Mallery's CL-HTTP server and just output HTML
from the document database instead of styled text (to the Lispm window version)
or postscript (to the printed version).
(Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
Again, PDF from Postcript, even without Hyperlinks, could
be a first step to make a lot of people on this list know
what LispM were all about.
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Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:40 -0400
From: Kalman Reti <reti@RIVERSIDE.SCRC.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Re: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
To: pisati@nichimen.com
Cc: reti@WILSON.AI.MIT.EDU, joswig@lavielle.com, lispos@math.gatech.edu
In-Reply-To: <AF9282FE-236A9@204.30.73.114>
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Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:06 EDT
From: "Luca Pisati" <pisati@nichimen.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:30 EDT
From: Luca Pisati <pisati@nichimen.com>
> A nice thing to have would be a "Document Examiner to HTML"
> converter. You would put >10000 pages Lisp machine documentation
> online.
Does anybody in this list still works at Symbolics ?
Yes.
Do you mean: Yes, I work at Symbolics,
Yes, I work at Symbolics.
and yes we could
authorize the Web publication of LispM documentation ?
Almost. I've talked about publishing the documentation on the Web to my
management, and thought some about what it would take to do it, but haven't
yet been given a go-ahead to actually do it.
Could the Genera doc be made available in HTML or PDF format
through the Web ?
It's been on my list of things to do. There was a rumor that someone in
Germany had actually done some working to get the document examiner
to output to html, but both John Mallery and my attempts to contact
the revelant party never received
any answer.
Well, I work at what was Symbolics Graphics Division (and now
is Nichimen Graphics). So I do have all the equipment for trying
to do that. If I reach some goal, could the doc be made publicly
available ?
I think so, but I'll have to check with management to be certain. If I were
to do the project, I'd use John Mallery's CL-HTTP server and just output HTML
from the document database instead of styled text (to the Lispm window version)
or postscript (to the printed version).
(Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
Again, PDF from Postcript, even without Hyperlinks, could
be a first step to make a lot of people on this list know
what LispM were all about.
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To: Kalman Reti <reti@riverside.scrc.symbolics.com>
Cc: reti@wilson.ai.mit.edu, joswig@lavielle.com, lispos@math.gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Publishing Genera doc in HTML (was: About lispOS...)
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Kalman Reti wrote:
>
> Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:06 EDT
> From: "Luca Pisati" <pisati@nichimen.com>
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:30 EDT
> From: Luca Pisati <pisati@nichimen.com>
>
> > A nice thing to have would be a "Document Examiner to HTML"
> > converter. You would put >10000 pages Lisp machine documentation
> > online.
>
> Does anybody in this list still works at Symbolics ?
>
> Yes.
>
> Do you mean: Yes, I work at Symbolics,
>
> Yes, I work at Symbolics.
Wow, it was I while I didn't see this address:
RIVERSIDE.SCRC.Symbolics.COM
> and yes we could
> authorize the Web publication of LispM documentation ?
>
> Almost. I've talked about publishing the documentation on the Web to my
> management, and thought some about what it would take to do it, but haven't
> yet been given a go-ahead to actually do it.
I hope this will happen.
> Could the Genera doc be made available in HTML or PDF format
> through the Web ?
>
> It's been on my list of things to do. There was a rumor that someone in
> Germany had actually done some working to get the document examiner
> to output to html, but both John Mallery and my attempts to contact
> the revelant party never received
> any answer.
>
> Well, I work at what was Symbolics Graphics Division (and now
> is Nichimen Graphics). So I do have all the equipment for trying
> to do that. If I reach some goal, could the doc be made publicly
> available ?
>
> I think so, but I'll have to check with management to be certain. If I were
> to do the project, I'd use John Mallery's CL-HTTP server and just output HTML
> from the document database instead of styled text (to the Lispm window version)
> or postscript (to the printed version).
That's a possibility.
> (Even whitout an HTML converter, Document examiner can print
> postcript to files, which can be turned into PDF)
>
> Again, PDF from Postcript, even without Hyperlinks, could
> be a first step to make a lot of people on this list know
> what LispM were all about.
Please let me know if any decision happens.
--
Luca Pisati Voice: (310) 577-0518
Nichimen Graphics Fax: (310) 577-0577
12555 W. Jefferson #285 EMail: pisati@nichimen.com
Los Angeles, CA 90066 Web: http://www.nichimen.com
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